Tea producer meetup, representing five countries

 

I debated not writing about this last meetup since the most interesting parts of the discussion, the details about growing and producing tea, I won't be sharing, since most of that is confidential.  Some parts might not be proprietary and related to business differentiation enough that I could share them, but to get the cut-off right I'll only mention general range of what was discussed here, not details, which really were the best part.  Let's start with who joined and why that was even possible.  First, my deepest thanks to all who participated, for sharing information that was really interesting to me and probably directly helpful to others in many cases.

Who joined:  Jason McDonald of the Great Mississippi Tea Company, Rishi Gopaldhara of the Gopaldhara Darjeeling producer, Anna of Kinnari Tea of Laos (a vendor, but also a tea production consultant across broad scope), Nika Sioridze of Georgia--the country--and the Greengold producer, and Narendra Kumar Gurung of Nepal, a private tea grower and processor.  What an honor to meet with them all, really.  My other tea clique joined as well, Ralph, Suzana, and Huyen.  Huyen has experimented some with making tea but it didn't take that many leading questions to move through a range of interesting scope.

To be clear all these people make great tea (or Anna sells it, but she's also involved with processing consulting).  Nika is a bit closer to the starting point than the rest, and that shows up in styles he hasn't perfected yet, but in general his teas are much better than one would expect, already above the level of some much more developed forms.  Even the one oolong, still being worked out, has a great distinctive roasted bamboo flavor aspect that makes it very positive to experience as it is now.  It's also possible to see some degree of ongoing transitions in what Jason is producing, even for trying one set as just a snapshot, but their teas work well for exactly what they are right now too, and don't come across as a work in progress.  In both those cases very positive inputs define their teas as distinct and unique, so it's not just a matter of copying forms and versions elsewhere.  

Rishi and Narendra aren't finished with making adjustments to styles, probably, but both make good representative forms of Darjeeling and Nepal teas, which is a positive thing.  It's almost not fair for Gopaldhara to have such a developed starting point in relation to a lot of other producers and types, but that's how tea goes.  There's another level of Chinese or Japanese producers drawing on even longer term prior production and processing, but I suppose to some extent more developed cultural tea tradition enables a better starting point and established demand but also well-developed competition.

So how and why did we end up meeting in this form?  In talking to Nika about processing issues, about them making adjustments to styles, it occurred to me that we have talked to a lot of people with a lot of exposure to those issues.  Getting them all together to share very proprietary, hard to come by information seemed a stretch, so I initially approached asking them in terms of how they felt about such a thing.  Everyone was completely open and positive; which was really surprising.  To my understanding it's not that none of the others was a direct competitor, although that might have helped, but more than that it seemed like "giving back" related to others having helped them in different ways, which caused them to be more open to sharing knowledge.

It probably didn't hurt that Jason and Rishi had met.  The rest my friends and I have met, in the meetups I keep talking about, but I'd imagine their contact was quite limited.

I won't add details here but the scope of what we covered was interesting, and I can at least share categories, and one very interesting general theme that emerged.  They discussed growing tea quite a bit, challenges that come up in different places (and natural environments), along with issues with market demand, sales channel development, and labor support.  I suppose it's not going too far to say that Jason experiences as much problem with getting staffing for farm labor as anyone else, and what he contributed about research and use of automated harvesting was interesting.  That's not a new subject but the actual approach and equipment does keep evolving.  

Jason also mentioned how climate change is a huge potential challenge for them.  Again it's not a secret that the climate in the US is shifting quite fast, with unusual storms, temperature extremes, periods of high rainfall, and droughts.  They'll make the best of it in compensating for drought, and beyond that the plants will have to try to endure most of the rest, and some plant types just won't.  He didn't talk about hard freezing occurring that far south in the US yet but it's probably only a matter of time.

To skip ahead to a general conclusion, or theme that was interesting, it was fascinating how the different producers were sharing detailed knowledge based on a range of different kinds of experiences and sources.  Of course Rishi was drawing on the inherited knowledge of a very developed business and growing region, even though he's making changes and experimenting with pushing forward from that starting point, adjusting tea styles and processing.  Jason had access to great research derived information; some of what he shared was really interesting, even for being isolated ideas from different scopes (their whole story for tea growing and processing would take a long time to tell).  Anna has broad exposure to what a lot of Laos producers are doing, at a very detailed level, and to how their industry is developing to respond to a lot of internal and external changes.  Nika is newer to tea business but it's fascinating how they've made a fast start based on reclaiming and renewing an older Soviet era plantation, which was interesting to hear about.

Narendra had a conflicting family issue to deal with and was less involved for joining towards the end.  In a sense that's a shame, because Nepal doesn't necessarily stand below other countries in terms of produced tea quality and novel character, in spite of working within a less developed tradition.  The farming and production that Narendra carries on was started by his father, so it's not really new.  He has attempted to translate his own production into a co-op theme, which I've not heard much about in terms of results since we discussed that last a couple of years ago.  I suspect that it was significantly disrupted by the pandemic, as many things were.

a capture version with Narendra

It was nice not talking very much about pandemic disruption and concerns.  We mostly stuck with basic tea growing, harvesting, and processing themes, with just a little added on the distribution and sales side.  If you could talk with a close tea producer friend, and you knew a lot more about those issues than I do, it's the kind of discussion that you might have, but with multiple inputs instead.

One concern is always how it's going to work in terms of flow of conversation; we've never tried to get nine people to meet and converse.  I suppose we never had nine present this time, since a couple joined late and Huyen was called away.  It went really well though, with the odd zig and zag for theme, or missed comment, due to that many joining.  I think Anna might have been able to add more about processing but naturally slipped into a coordinating role, and it was probably as well to lose some input from one member to enable three others to share a lot.  The knowledge and experience everyone was drawing on wouldn't fit in an hour or two of discussion, but what did get covered was a great sample, with some points very relevant and actionable for others.

an early capture with Huyen included; it's hard to get 7 or 8 good images at the same time

The differences in their businesses were interesting, not just about climate and historical / cultural context, but scope and scale, and type.  Jason is ramping up very developed and advanced production for being a half dozen or so years into moving past a background and design review, and initial steps.  They push forward on lots of fronts, at the same time they are ramping it all up, across scope like environment design, equipment use, and sales channels.  

We didn't even touch on combining plain, high quality tea production and blend / flavored tea development, which I see as both a response to a market condition and also "the tail wagging the dog," them proactively changing their tea market as they expand into it.  Tea blends / flavored teas aren't new but their approach to them seems to be, to me.  Rishi is on the opposite extreme, also making a lot of the same changes for experimenting with new range, but drawing on tea tradition that goes way back. Their website mentions that they were founded in 1955, but that's the year his family took over the plantation, which was founded in 1881.

One really interesting difference came up in Jason's approach of drawing on modern research inputs that identify compounds in teas that transition in different ways during processing.  In the end best-case growing and processing practices that derived from that input seemed to map to traditional practices developed from received knowledge and personal experimentation.  

I suppose that theme of transitioning from a very old, grounded tea tradition to it being necessary to make a lot of radical changes just to make a business and "local" tea production theme work was common to everyone.  Laos was a completely isolated and undeveloped country 20 years ago; when I first visited there around 14 years ago they had just finished wiring the more populated half of the country with electricity access.  Nepal might have started on development a little earlier but must be in a roughly equivalent place.  Nika and Georgia's case is fascinating to me, related to their economy going through a reset after the 1990-91 end of the Soviet Union.  He invited all of us to visit there, and I would really love to get to that.  

Without climate change, a pandemic, general economic disruption, and large scale staffing issues a lot shift would be required for tea producers to keep up, but with those factored in ongoing success will require aiming at a moving target.  None of them seem to be getting caught flat-footed, trying to keep on with what tea production had been before; instead quite the opposite.

One part that helped make this possible, that I appreciate even more than the fantastic knowledge sharing, is how these are all people that I respect, admire, and can look up to as good examples of human beings.  None of them are taking short cuts, "doing what they have to do" in difficult circumstances; they're not that kind of people.  They are all paying dues in full, putting the work in, not trying to benefit from others' disadvantages, instead only seeking out successes that they've earned.  I only partly joked with one about how I would trust any of them with watching my kids, the one thing I value most in this world. 

All in all it seemed very successful to me.  I don't doubt that a much longer version wouldn't have ran out of discussion scope, so maybe we will be able to break past form and repeat that meeting version.

Tea processing and demand shifts in China

 

photo credit Suzana, as usual

that one cup has an interesting story, here

This is really about input from another meetup, but since the points I found most interesting relate to tea processing and demand shifts in China the focus is on that.  Cindy Chen, the Wuyi Origin producer--also ran by her husband and family--talked about these issues mostly related to Wuyishan (Wuyi Yancha "rock oolong") and Chaozhou (Dan Cong) production, but really more related to Wuyi Yancha.  Earlier discussion on other themes was interesting too, and I'll add a little about infusing tea in oil and alcohol at the end, another main point.  To back up a bit related to this meetup context, we invited a number of people we've talked to in small previous group discussions to join together, which included one session with Cindy.  Eight people attended altogether; not bad.

Cindy started telling us about their business, about volumes produced, general background, how specialized orders work out, tied to general processing themes, and about changes in tea awareness and demand in China over the last decade.  Truly fascinating stuff!  Some of it was familiar but the part about a shift in demand and awareness was not.

we saw just a little tea sorting going on

She mentioned some production issues related to different teas, about how Wuyishan growing areas are laid out, and how micro-climate, especially in terms of sun exposure, changes final tea character a lot.  I wrote an interview post about those factors--Making Rock Oolong--based on her input awhile back, which overlaps, and shared some pictures of a harvest season since then.  

The short version is that not only do plant types and ages matter, and rainfall and other local climate issues, and local soil conditions, but sun exposure also does.  The same plants growing on a small valley floor and on ledges, or at the edge of that valley, would produce different character tea.  An example:  initial intensity varies, and the more forward oriented aroma notes, with those ranges more pronounced with greater sun exposure, with tea with more depth and subtlety resulting from partly shaded conditions.

Josh was trying to place this in relation to Japanese green teas, but we never really made a clear connection in discussion.  For those, per my understanding, partial shading prior to harvest greatly increases chlorophyll production, increasing flavor intensity across one range, and to some extent increasing bitterness.  But Wuyi Yancha oolongs are not bitter, at all, given how processing changes compounds that probably would come across that way if you chewed a fresh leaf.  It seems to contradict, to say that sun exposure increases oolong intensity, but restricting sun exposure increases Japanese green tea intensity, but it all must map out in a more complicated form than that.

Onto the awareness changes part.  It's my impression that Cindy was talking about awareness and demand shifts (increases) among a very limited subset of Chinese tea drinkers and consumers, her own customer base.  They are becoming more knowledgeable, and making more specific demands.  I think that the "average Chinese person" doesn't see tea so differently than they did 20 years ago, beyond more young people drinking coffee and bubble tea now.  

I'm basing that on visiting China three times (which is very limited input), and knowing three Chinese families, living here in Bangkok, as more in-depth feedback.  All three were close friends of my kids, and all three we joined for dinner parties, sports outings, attending local Thai holiday events, and to restaurants and the local zoo.  Those kinds of contact give you more time to talk about daily life.  All three drank tea but essentially knew nothing about the subject. They drank whatever local types were in a grocery store or local market, and couldn't describe those types in much detail.  The same was true of a Japanese friend, again the father of my daughter's best friend; he may or may not have been familiar with the concept of "sencha," and drank whatever he happened to buy at a grocery store.

two of those friends; they are missed, back in China now

looking like this isn't about cultural immersion, in the normal sense

Cindy's customers are at the other end of the scale; they know tea.  According to her it has went beyond just ordering much better versions for gifts and such, or liking those for daily consumption, some are onto special ordering very specific versions.  I'll get back to that gift idea, which ties to a broader transition theme.  In some very limited cases Cindy's family do produce "single bush / tree" tea versions, but that makes a lot less sense for Wuyishan oolongs, which tend to be from relatively small plants, that never grow to a size that supports that.  We've discussed how that works in relation to Dan Cong before but I'll stick to what was covered yesterday.  

Over time a limited set of her customers have learned how varying growing conditions inputs can change tea, and can specify which exact type they want.  Not just in relation to oxidation and roast level, but related to ordering specific versions from limited range growing areas, eg. from a certain growing field location.  On the broader scale a lot of customers are appreciating better tea too, without taking those kinds of next steps. They can seek out the types and higher quality levels from producers like Cindy, replacing earlier preference for well-known and mass-marketed volume production blended teas.  

my favorite picture of Cindy, showing one growing area

Cindy said that the status of giving main commercial brand teas as a gift has at least partly been replaced by giving better quality tea. That seems a positive step.  For those unfamiliar with truly high end Wuyishan oolongs, or Dan Cong, it won't work to describe what Cindy sells.  It's so good that I recommend that people exploring such oolongs don't start there, that they experience more moderate quality versions first, to identify the range, and experience some flaws, then move onto what the true potential is.  It doesn't work as well exploring in the other direction, and there's learning involved with drinking medium quality or even flawed teas.

All of this reminds me of some interesting input from a Chinese-Malaysian friend about tea service in a business context, more a formal entertainment theme than related to gifts.  It might seem like I'm jumping the track a bit, changing countries, shifting from personal preference and gift-giving to a third tea drinking context, but Cindy did actually bring up that tea can also play an important role in business interactions.  I'll cite part of what that friend said, a lawyer in Kuala Lumpur, William.  

The tl;dr version is that in business it's normal for higher executives to make an elaborate show of preparing tea for guests; it's expected.

In this message, I would like to share something about the various settings Chinese in mainland China drink teas.

Setting 1:

This setting is deemed to be the most elaborate form, favoured by the chairman, the chief executive officer 'CEO' of a corporation, for having a large room for workplace. The office is usually divided into two section, one part is for work, the other is designed into a room that resembles a teahouse. There is a desk, the height of and shaped like a dinner table, a seat is placed at one side, whilst two more seats are positioned on the opposite side of the desk. A thorough accessories, complete with a hot water kettle, tools and equipment for gongfu tea preparation is placed on the table.

The chairman or the CEO would be the host, serving tea via gongfu style, when meeting another colleague, discussing company matters or seeing a guest to talk over business partnership. It is through such reception with another entrepreneur or industrialist that business deals are entered into. Besides opting for a game of golf or to meet in a restaurant over a six course meals with tea or red wine, both outings are well-liked in Malaysia, as well, inviting another captain of industry for tea into this section of the office of a highest-ranking person in the company is also a very popular form of arrangement, allowing a formal dialogue be serenely engaged between both the host and his guest in the most private manner.

A man who holds directorship in his guest's company would also entertain his guest in similar environment if he himself is also the head or owner of his own company located elsewhere, away from his guest's home or workplace and has similar detailed set up for tea drinking, too, making conversation and even giving of advice and imparting his knowledge to his guest if his visitor is his junior or a newly appointed figurehead. The tea brewing could be put together, simply for the exchange of ideas or brainstorming for business planning and development between an 'uncle' and his 'nephew'.

not even close to the same theme, a corporate presentation I attended in China

This clearly ties into an elaborate gift-giving culture common in China.  There are three other cases (settings) that he described, extending to lower level managers hosting much less elaborate versions of the same process, onto tea house or cafe forms and expectations.  Suffice it to say that the elaborate nature of the forms and device use is only scaled down, but expectations about very particular types of experience remain in place, just in more casual forms.  The most informal form he describes is what goes by the name "grandpa style" brewing in Western enthusiast circles, coined by an influential tea blogger:

In China, the ongoing and trouble-free tea infused in a flask or teapot at home would be '龍井茶' or 'Loong Jeng Cha', also known as 'Dragon Well tea', a renowned roasted green tea from '杭州' or 'Hong Jau' or 'Hangzhou', using a huge wok for '殺青' or 'Saat Cheng', a process literally means 'to kill-green' those tea leaves with bare hands. It is observed that Loong Jeng tea has been a leading tea variety and a household name in China, prepared and served in many a Chinese home. I had personally witnessed Chinese strolling all over the streets in Guangzhou, China, carrying glass canisters of all shapes and sizes made for seasoning paste and sauce, being recycled into drink container, all filled with teas.

Of course we know that green tea type as "Longjing."

Rest assured that my friend is immersed in a form of sub-culture that's much more Chinese in origin than Malaysian, with plenty of direct contact within China.  He communicates that in every such message about those cultural issues.  We last discussed traditional Chinese medicine approaches to healing bone fractures, related to a US friend breaking her ankle recently.  He passed on a version of the Guan Yin origin legend in this post about reviewing two traditional Tie Guan Yin versions (which he gave me, along with a good bit of Liu Bao; he's both generous and informative).

Back to Cindy's input, I'm missing some ideas that connect these themes, about processing steps, and other broad demand shift details.  She mentioned that the main shift seemed to occur beginning about 10 years ago, when better tea uptake really took off, which has gradually increased ever since.  Kind of off subject, she said that the latest spike in demand seems to relate to white tea instead, with prices in Fuding-produced white teas shooting up about 30% this year.  For growing up so embedded in the tea industry and culture she would tend to hear about other areas and types, beyond producing both Wuyi Yancha and Dan Cong herself (her husband and his family is from Chaozhou).

This post is already running long, and heavy on tangents, but I wanted to share a description of Cindy I ran across awhile back, from Jeff Fuchs' Tea and Mountain Journals.  It will help fill in the part I can't do justice to, about how Cindy is, which I very much appreciate every time I interact with her:

Cindy is made of tea it seems. Rampant energy, talking of nothing else, she knows tea from the soil to the very skin of the leaf and through the various stages it is a subject that is part of her. Her entire family for generations has produced Rock teas (called ‘yen cha’ locally), named for the fact that the teas generally grow in small terraced plots amidst stone and shadows where the teas must struggle to find a root-hold in the soils...

She's like that, energetic, and a very pure and humble soul.  She shares this experience and information from a place of shared interest, not as a vendor promoting products, and not as an expert passing down wisdom from on high.  Jeff covers that context too:

On this morning Cindy uses a simple white ceramic gaiwan, or flared cup vessel, for ease of examining colour and rapid fire infusions. Rapid fire they are, but with Cindy every serving is something fresh and perfect, though she in all of her modesty claims that she is “only someone who knows tea a little”.

She was born into knowing and experiencing more than a little of tea.  Her young daughters could teach me about tea right now, a lot more than we could cover together in a lengthy span of time.  It's probably as well to move on to touch on a second sub-theme.

learning about roasting oolong as a toddler, with an unrelated boo-boo

Infusing tea with oil and alcohol

Josh--that Canadian tea somellier--and Suzana discussed this more than the rest of us, for Josh attempting repeated trials along this line, and Suzana experimenting with it just a little.  You can infuse tea in oil; who knew?  The tea cocktail theme, and infusing tea in alcohol, is familiar enough, even though I've never actually tried it out myself, since I really don't drink.  This is a nice summary interview article on the alcohol infusion / tea cocktail theme by Tony Gebely.

The main idea is that you can actually infuse tea leaves in oil, and get slightly different results than using water.  Of course that would relate well to cooking, but they seemed to be discussing it more as a way to just check how it works out.  Knocking back a small gongfu cup of tea infused cooking oil would seem a little strange though, and drinking a dozen probably wouldn't digest well, no matter what you ate with that.  They really did go into detail about which aspect notes came out the most related to using different oils, teas, and approaches, but I suppose I was tuning in and out of that for not planning to try it.  I'll just stick to using hot water.  

Josh mentions where he sees this approach going, which is a novel vision:

In my mind how I see my process working is that the taster will begin a session with an infused oil made from the tea leaf their session will be based on. They move it around to coat their mouth and swallow it. Then I make the tea, and using an atomizer to mist the alcohol essence onto or in the vicinity of the tea or taster I can combine the every soluable aspect of the tea in one sitting.

Infusing tea with alcohol seems more promising to me, if someone already drinks alcohol, I'm just not so sure about using it to scent the air.  It could add a lot of potential flavor range to cocktails, and I suppose the caffeine could be a positive input, like drinking Red Bull and vodka, which came up after my drinking days.  Earl Grey is described as suitable for that use, in Tony's article, and gin is described as a popular alcohol input.

Huyen mentioned trying tea infused alcohol in a separate message discussion after that meeting.  She was having some technical problems with sound coming through; not including it in the session may have related to that.  I don't have much to add about that but a picture she shared tells part of the story.  She claims that wine is used as in input in at least one of these, which would explain why the "gunpowder" version is amber, instead of the yellow-gold one would expect from a green tea infusion.  Then again the liquor used in these isn't specified, on the bottle labels.  Sugar and alcohol content are specified. 

photo credit Huyen; that tea infused alcohol she discussed

It's not as if we only talked about tea themes in China and the oil and alcohol infusion issue.  This session ran long, and Narendra provided thoughts and discussion related to other tangents, especially as they related to Nepal teas, which he produces.  An interesting sub-theme came up about how family production and sales seem common in China, with tea production based on a plantation / large-scale model in places like India instead, and in Thailand and Indonesia.  Tea just seems better integrated in Chinese culture, beyond forms like masala chai being prevalent in India.

Only Alexander Zhiryakov also joined, beyond my set of friends and the others I've mentioned, but he was balancing attention with some other demand. We never drifted onto Russian oriented tea issues, or Laos Tea, or the Tea ID testing program theme we talked about in that other session.

Alexander is really pulling off a pandemic look

I haven't mentioned that Ralph was married in the last week; congratulations to both of them!

I'm not sure where this meetup form will naturally evolve next, but this was a cool step, expanding range to include more participants and broader discussion scope.

Huyen wasn't in the other photos.  Teams mixes framing formats when people use phones.

Talking to Narendra, a Nepal tea producer

 

photo credit Ralph; everyone takes better captures than me

I wrote an interview post covering more standard background on Narendra Gurung awhile back, here (and white and black tea reviews, and a later black tea review).  He just finally met with that circle of friends for the online meetups I keep talking about.  

It's always nice talking to people I already feel familiar with and know a lot about, and also to new people, for learning from more of a blank slate, and this worked as a pleasant form of the first case.  I'll cover a few points we discussed, as usual with this not really intended as a summary.

Issues related to tea production in Nepal

Nepal produces some great tea, better than they really should be able to given their limited history, but according to Narendra their industry faces some serious challenges, especially related to small producers.  On the growing side implementing organic production is very problematic, both difficult and costly.  It's hard for growers to evaluate requirements for tea production in terms of soil nutrients, and soil compound level testing practices are not well-developed.  This is problematic enough for standard tea production, but all the harder for trying to balance organic inputs, for example substituting natural fertilizers for mass produced chemical versions.

Narendra's tea farm, discussed more in that earlier post

Another serious challenge relates to the business and regulatory infrastructure for export.  There isn't a mature wholesale network developed that makes it easy for small farmers to sell teas for export, or for domestic distribution, with domestic demand not able to support the highest quality level sale at sustainable pricing levels.  The same applies to development of tea processing businesses.  As things stand now options for both are limited, with regulatory constraints not set up to facilitate further development of both types of channels.

Of course all three of these factors mentioned also relate to a level of general economic development.  We didn't talk specifically about sales and distribution logistics, about specific infrastructure channel development for moving goods and supporting these steps, but issues like that have been developed extensively within Thailand over the past 20 years, and they were probably as far along as in Nepal now prior to that.  These problems also represent business opportunities, in addition to being current economic restrictions or roadblocks, but a global downturn from this pandemic experience doesn't help support making those development changes.  Prior shipping options narrowed significantly last year, and international demand for all sorts of goods dropped, along with the health of individual economies all around the world.

Most discussion was positive, to be clear.  We talked about how good Nepal tea is too, and how it can be so, even with these apparent limitations.  For me personally it's a main favorite category.  Especially their white tea versions tend to be distinct, and very positive, with great intensity and complexity, a nice mineral aspect base, pleasant sweetness, and floral and bright citrus range. We didn't really get into why that seems to be the case; it must be terroir related, and also tied to local processing styles.

that Nepal white tea, one version of it

It's no surprise that in Nepal more people drink plain, flavored, masala chai-themed, or CTC teas, versus the high quality orthodox tea I was just referring to.  I just mentioned this in relation to US demand in talking to Jason McDonald, a US tea grower, about how that same thing is a main demand limitation in the US.  It's true in India too; Darjeeling stands on the same quality level as most of the best orthodox tea produced anywhere (with some limited volume, truly exceptional range quality produced by longstanding tea traditions in China, Japan, and Taiwan), but CTC teas are most popular there.  It's also like that in Thailand, and in Russia; basically everywhere.

six years ago I reviewed a masala chai from a Nepalese intern at work

The divide implied here doesn't really hold up, that the amazing, exceptional oolongs, black teas, and pu'er produced in China is appreciated and enjoyed by most of the people there, or even a significant percentage of the population.  It's not like that.  People in China drink local teas, and as elsewhere "tea enthusiasts" seek out the best quality from that range.  It's just that this awareness and demand is based in an old, native tradition there, so it surely is taken up by a broader minority than in the US, for example.  But still by a minority.  

Several of my best friends in Bangkok have been the families of friends of my children, most from China and Japan, and in none of their cases were any of them remotely aware of high quality tea types.  They drank whatever teas turned up at their local grocery stores.  It's my impression that the "artisian / specialty / craft" food themes that became very common in the US in the 1990's is not really a global phenomena, and may or may not ever become that.

Huyen's capture version, with Ralph showing a Nepal tea he had handy

another of Ralph's captures

Tea evaluation

Back to talking to Narendra, an interesting tangent about tea description came up.  This is the kind of subject that no two tea enthusiasts, vendors, or other professionals would see in exactly the same way.  Intuitively it should be possible to clearly and objectively describe tea character, and this should support informing consumers about products and sales options.  The opposite turns out to be more common, and perhaps more true.  Tasting and description are at least partly subjective, so that an optimum for vendors might be to pass on a clear impression of a tea without committing to describing specific aspects, which consumers would interpret differently.  Which is tricky, of course.

On the one extreme evaluation processes come up, and use of tasting wheels to help clarify a range of potential aspects, along with aroma training kits to help train tasters to make those connections.  For me writing 1500 word tea reviews so frequently one might imagine that I'm "bought in" to such potential for objective analysis.  But I'm not.  I think that Ralph, Huyen, Suzana and I would describe the exact same tea experiences very differently, using different aspect descriptions, and focusing on different aspect category ranges within a given tea trial (feel versus flavor, for example, or seeing different aspects as quality markers).  Brewing process differences, and varying device and water types used, would probably lead to us not have the exact same experience, even if the dry tea product was identical.  We didn't really map out all those divides in discussion but we did talk around a little of it.

flavor / aroma wheel discussion keeps coming up, last covered here last year

It's hard not to drift towards a "what's next" context when discussing any problems or limitations related to tea production, marketing, sales, or tasting, especially related to themes about undeveloped potential.  We didn't really push on to that range so much. An hour-plus discussion only goes so far, and identifying the scope of issues comes before guessing at potential solutions.  

It's a real shame that Nepal makes such good tea, with international awareness of that still building, that small growers there face all the challenges they do, and then a Covid-related global downturn stalled all the development work people like Narendra were trying to do.  He's not bitter about it; past a certain life experience level it becomes comfortable to "work with what you've got."  He is looking forward to getting back to that work; that doesn't need to involve resignation to acceptance of current conventional limitations.  Economies will open again and more planes will fly, and experiences like tea drinking will seem more important to more people again.

Thailand takes the downturn on the chin but limited range of impact can make it seem more acceptable, or normal.  Foreign tourism has dropped out here, something like a 15% loss to the economy, but other sectors are doing better.  It's hard to get a feel for how other countries are doing, for example how this has impacted Nepal.  I suppose it would always depend on the business sector and the individual.  Tourism is probably less of a factor there but indirect or overall impact must be considerable.  Every country has restricted normal forms of life experience, out of necessity.  It was nice to focus more on tea in discussion, a happier subject, as we tend to in most of those talks.  

When Narendra asked Suzana about the pandemic status in India she was clear and direct about it; India experiences a complete nightmare now, an unthinkable death toll, across many local areas.  You can sense the stress she experiences from loss and concern over personal risk.  But Indians are grounded, philosophical, optimistic, and resilient, if a little prone to superstition in some personal cases.  They will be fine, as we all will be.  

It reminds me of updating my Mom about a personal trial related to my kids (which I haven't shared here; I could get to that), that it's all ok, even though it's not really ok.  My kids are grounded and resilient; they'll be fine. And Thailand will pull it together and get vaccination coverage ramped up, so we can move off this pandemic isolation theme that never completely ends here.

their bright spirits are consistent

Keo, looking older with really long hair

a mentos and Coke science experiment

Comparing Laos and Nepal white teas

Moonlight white lower left, Laos top, Nepal tea bottom left

This tasting was about getting to a few teas I've been meaning to try for awhile.  Anna of Kinnari Teas passed on teas at the end of last year, some versions that were sold as Kinnari teas and some that she had ran across in travels in Laos.  Her teas are great.  Laos teas are great, in general.  If this government initiative to support that industry works out you'll have broader access to try some, but don't hold your breath; SE Asian government projects take time.

Another friend, Somnuc Amnousinh, passed on some Laos teas I've written about as well.  He's not a vendor, just a tea enthusiast who gets out, and related to that he shared some great versions from Laos.  This black tea version works as a good example; it's a crying shame that anyone being able to order that tea online is only a distant dream.  If it sounds too good to miss then you need to get on a plane and fly to Laos.

The third is a Nepal tea, shared by a small producer friend there, Narendra Kumar Gurung.  His teas are produced through a Highlanders Farmers Private Limited tea-coop, which I said more about in this post, sold labeled as Barbote teas.  This review of a black tea version conveys how unique and well-made those teas are, just amazing they could be that good so early in their production history.  It's not as if he is new to growing tea though, and processing very good tea is nothing new in the local Nepal industry.  "Very good" is all relative; in this case I mean in the sense of not giving up much in terms of Darjeeling quality standards, or maybe as good but just different in style.  To me that's impressive.


It is nice knowing such interesting and diverse people through exploring tea interest.  Now that I think of it I've written about all three of these people in one other post about meeting interesting tea friends, here.

I've not actually met Narendra in person yet, and there really is an extra depth to that form of experience.  But it can still be nice sharing ideas through messages, and I've tried his teas, which have all been very nice.  It's probably luck of the draw as much as anything but all of the Nepal teas I've tried, not just his, were very pleasant, distinctive, and somewhat consistent in style ranges.  I won't add more about that background, though, since there's plenty of review to get to.

One of these is a Moonlight white and two are silver tips style teas (buds-only white, not so different than silver needle, but I take that to be a more type-specific reference).  It's odd comparing diverse tea types like that, just sharing being white tea.  The plan was for the contrast to make sense, for the Moonlight White to stand out for being type-typical and nothing like the other two, and then for them to make sense related to each other, with the contrasting descriptions as a base that fills in more about character.  It sort of didn't work out like that, but that's part of it too, seeing how things go.

Review

I used about a 30 second infusion time for the first round, which would be way too long for the shengs I've been drinking more of lately, but for these they'll just be getting started infusing in that time.

Laos Moonlight White (Kinnari Tea):  the tea is great, as expected.  It leans more towards spice than I thought it would, since I was expecting more fruit, but that works too, and the fruit will probably develop more over the next two rounds.  This is warm and earthy enough that it could easily be an aged tea version, it's just not, similar in some limited ways to a well-transitioned shou mei.  It's nice, distinctive and sweet.  As near as I can tell based on drinking a light initial infusion it's well balanced.  I'll do more with an aspect list next round.

I didn't take a picture of the dry teas before reviewing them, a bit of a lapse.  As memory serves this looked similar to Oriental Beauty in color scheme as these teas go, with dark, reddish, and brown leaf colors, not limited to silver and black as is typical for Moonlight White.  I really should take another photo since I have more at home, and may edit this to include one if I end up posting it before I do. 

I didn't do much with photos at all in this tasting; I'm not sure why not, since I am in the habit.  It probably related to family-originated background noise; I can't always wait for the kids to clear out somewhere to try and write notes about teas, and it's really hard to focus with piano playing, banging around, and screaming in the background.  It's like having wild animals in the house.

the sweet little noise makers out for pizza recently

Laos silver tip (or silver needle, if you like):  this is labeled "Yanchaw W;" I don't know what that part means).  For once this silver tips version doesn't taste vaguely like straw and flowers.  A good bit of spice comes across in this tea, even more so than in the Moonlight version, which included more spice than anything else.  Strange.  If anything the proportion is slightly lower for this white and it seems more intense than the Moonlight (although without weighing the teas that's just a guess, a guess that will be more informed once I see the fully saturated leaf volume, when it will still be just a guess).

I'm wondering if this wasn't contaminated by being stored too close to something else, the taste range is so unexpected and intense.  There were tisanes in that storage box too and one in particular was aromatic, an unusual form of compressed fruit tisane bar.  I had some pu'er and other long-term stored teas well isolated in a cabinet, and other samples and in-progress versions in a moderately sealed box in that same cabinet, and miscellaneous samples and boxes piling up all over the place, and my wife collected the strays into one storage box.  It would be odd if this whole review was about flavor the tea picked up along the way, and it's as much an actual possibility as a funny thing to say at this point.  These Laos sample teas from Somnuc were stored in plastic bags similar to ziplock bags, and those are a bit permeable, not a great moderate-term storage solution, and this has been around for a few months now.


Nepal silver needle:  this is interesting, distinctive, and pleasant; not on the weak side for being an initial round.  It does taste floral and like dried hay, so it is what I expect as a default from bud-only white teas, but a touch of unique range mineral seems to give away the Nepal origin.  There's a hint of citrus in it too, a dried peel that could be tangerine versus a sweet version of orange:  that's nice.  I'll leave off the longer descriptions to do a full list for all next time.

Laos Moonlight White left, Laos white middle, Nepal tea on the right

Second infusion

Moonlight white:  fruit isn't necessarily filling in yet but a nice savory sweetness similar to sundried tomato is.  That's primary; the spice range isn't as noticeable, and really at this point it requires imagination to split out the rest further.  Free associating a little to get to that:  milder spice is present, and some degree of light floral, but a sweet version of it, something like violet, or instead like a light version of lavendar.  Fruit is closest to dried apricot; to me that part does stand out.


Laos silver needle:  I hate to say it but this does taste like the spice in a tisane blend I tried not long ago, something really novel from Moychay, a pressed fruit bar that was quite heavy on spice (listed here with a description cut short since it's sold out).  This might be a rare case of an aborted review, leaving off as a warning about combined storage, especially if one of the teas isn't well-sealed.  Using ziplock style bags can be a problem; not much of the rest of how teas are stored is as open to being affected like that.  The tea is quite nice, for what that's worth; that hint of spice works well with the rest.  If it is natural it's a unique, positive aspect of this tea.  It's probably not (more guesswork), and most likely a happy accident that the flavor cross-contamination was positive.


Nepal silver needle:  the mineral, light floral, sweetness, hint of dried citrus peel, and dried hay all works together.  It's a distinctive profile that seems familiar.  I'd probably have to brew it stronger to draw out a thicker feel but it doesn't necessarily come across as thin, I've just accustomed to sheng lately, which are even more multi-dimensional.  I will let this run over another 30 seconds to get plenty of infusion strength out of it.


Third infusion

Kinnari Moonlight White:  more of the same, mainly savory, towards sun-dried tomato, with a bit of spice under that.  Or it could seem more like autumn forest floor:  warm, sweet, and rich, clean flavored but earthy.  Using either as a main flavor-range interpretation (or more likely seeing it as covering both for range) there's a hint of spice as well, closest to cinnamon, but also not so far off nutmeg.  Reviewers with a great imagination would add a lot to that, aspects like warm floral tone or rich berry, like blackberry, maybe closer to that than apricot in this round.  I thought it might be even fruitier but at least it does get to a little of that.


Laos silver needle:  I'm dropping this out of the review process; it tastes like warm spice and fruit, way too close to that Moychay tisane pressed bar.  Now that I think of it that tisane bar would be perfect for mixing with an inexpensive white tea to convert it to a flavored version.  To some that would seem like an unnatural act, way off their own preference, and I tend to not drink teas along that line much myself.  But it seems to work in this, and it's not even brewed together, seemingly just picking up a trace of flavor transferred across two layers of packaging.


Nepal silver needle:  the mix of flavors seems to evolve to include a bit of fruit.  The light tangerine peel aspect already was that, but it seems more pronounced and complex in this round.  It's a bit non-distinct, since it is coming across along with all the rest (mineral, dried hay, etc.), and since the profile extends to light floral too.  I'll guess out a range for that fruit as dried citrus fruit itself, versus the peel, maybe closest to blood orange, quite warm and sweet.

apparently I didn't feel like taking pictures that day

Fourth infusion


This will do for a final take; it's enough tea, even though these are probably only more or less half finished.  Using the longer infusion times would limit the count, so it won't make it to over a dozen as sheng tastings have (which brews a lot of tea too).  White teas are often durable related to what can be brewed from them compared to black teas.  Oolongs are in the middle; it just depends on the type.

Moonlight white:  other than fading a little the general effect is the same.  Even that change could result from a variance in infusion time, from not keeping track.


Nepal silver needle:  still in the same range, but the balance keeps shifting.  Mineral might be stronger than the rest in this round (a flinty / limestone sort of range mineral, lighter stone), with light citrus, dried hay, and floral tone standing out, more or less in that order.  It's quite flavorful as buds-only white teas go, in a range that's pleasant.

Conclusions

I really liked all three teas.  The Moonlight wasn't what I expected but it was nice.  For amounting to a tea storage glitch the Laos white was very pleasant.  I probably never will carry through on using that tisane for making a homemade blended version, mixing it with tea, but it would be great for that, and I tend to just not think along those lines.  I did mention in writing about it elsewhere (another story I'll get to) that the fruit tisane bar might work well for adjusting the flavor of a masala chai, doing a fruit-adjusted version of spiced tea.  That I might get to; it's interesting messing around with versions of those.

The Nepal tea was better than I expected, although I probably should've expected that character.   Buds-only whites so often come across as relatively flavorless to me that I don't start with high hopes but Nepal teas are often on the intense side, and Narendra's other versions have been really pleasant.  Someone with more exposure to Nepal white teas would've done more with placing that, comparing it to other range.  In the past I've been more of a fan of the really intense bud and fine leaf Nepal white versions, which can be heavier yet on citrus fruit with a cool mineral undertone, as Narendra's version of that type was.


Many thanks again to those three friends for sharing those teas.

at a local temple with a visitor recently

probably time to get back to a haircut theme

same week, same temple (Wat Pho), different visit

a photo with my wife and a very respected local monk

Barbote Tea Nepal Black, tea from Narendra

the golden needle version label (this pack was plain)

Narendra Kumar Gurung

I've reviewed a golden needle and white version Narendra sent awhile back, the co-op style producer of Nepalese teas I wrote about last year.  Those teas are sold under a Barbote label through the Highlander Farmers Private Limited.  This review covers the black tea version.



I've tried this tea a number of times, and shared some with friends, I've just not got around to reviewing it.  It's nice; a well-balanced, complex, clean-flavored tea.  The style is probably closest to Darjeeling but it's different enough that the comparison might not be informative.  It might bear some resemblance to a Chinese black style, just not to a specific type that I'm familiar with.  It seems to vary some depending on parameters used to brew it; that can be nice to experience.


I asked Narendra what it was, and this was his input:

It is made from Tagda 78 and Gumtee, both are based on Chinese varieties. About the season, it is from autumn flush.  These were plucked till the Oct till the end of November.  After this we let the garden go on rest till spring that mean by March end.

These teas are from young tea plants, not more than 20 years old, grown by organic methods.


I'll keep this basic then; no need to write out 1500 words every post just to say all that I can think of.  It would work well brewed Western style but I'll prepare it Gongfu style because I'm in the habit.  It might well work a little better that way, but I'd have to try both again over a shorter period of time to be sure.

Review

Malt stands out as a main aspect, a much softer version than occurs in Assam (although those do vary; some versions are quite soft and mild).  A touch of dryness and very light astringency goes along with that flavor aspect, but it's a very soft and mild tea.  The astringency gives it some body and a different feel, no actual edge.  Beyond that the flavor is complex.  A good bit of mineral fills in a base.  One pronounced aspect reminds me a little of sweet corn.  Floral is so common in teas that it would be easy to just default to that description instead.

The aspects might come across more as fruit if the mineral, malt, and dryness weren't pulling it so far in that direction, countering a clearer interpretation of other lighter range.  Sweetness is pretty good; it balances.  I expect the flavors will shift and "clean up" a little next round, that the mineral toward light rust will be cleaner after an initial infusion.  Brewing it light (versus this being kind of medium, infused for well over 10 seconds) might help tease out finer aspect range for description.

Brewed lighter, and being a second infusion, the effect is different.  It wasn't musty in the sense of tea production being a bit off, it just seemed the way the mineral would come across would change.  Some of the warm earthiness, mild malt, sweetness, and light corn is similar to what you might see in different golden tips black tea versions, or even Jin Jun Mei (a Fujian, Wuyishan area origin black tea).  I like that character.  I'll be honest though, I'm really most taken with Chinese style soft and sweet blacks with flavors aspects in the range of cocoa, cinnamon, and dried fruit, or even roasted sweet potato / yam.  But this does also work well, and the way that shifting parameters changes its character gives it a lot of potential.

There's a lot more interpretation that could be applied to the earthy range; aspects like warm mineral, malt, and darker tones like dark wood (or leather, or even tobacco) could be described in lots of different ways.  I've just kind of skipped it here, passing on the general range description.  If you roast corn on a fire (still in the husk), and singe the husk and silk a little that gives you a sweet, rich roasted corn flavor, some caramel, and a darker earthier range from the light char that isn't so far off this.


On the next round astringency stands out a little more.  When preparing black tea Gongfu style at a high proportion small shifts in brewing parameters would change that without any actual transition coming from the tea itself.  This tea is intense enough that brewing it at a low proportion for Western style would still works well (I've tried it that way), and gives a different effect.  Backing off temperature just a little would change outcome too but I think using relatively hot water would be the best way to go, maybe not full boiling point but 90 to 95 C.  It's not as if there is any need to work around astringency as a concern.

Brewed slightly lighter the character does change back to closer to what it had been on the round before.  Astringency drops back and that malt, caramel, and roasted corn flavor picks up.  This tea is best brewed on the light side; the flavors are plenty intense and complex that way, and even the mouthfeel doesn't thin out brewed faster and lighter.  An aspect may hint a little more towards fruit but I'd need more rounds to isolate that better.

brewed stronger, but indoor lighting changes color too

I came back to brew the tea after a long break for a few more rounds (4 or 5 more; using a packed gaiwan for proportion really does extend the count) and a main aspect seemed a lot more like muscatel than I'd picked up on before (a type of grape).  That's the main characteristic aspect in Darjeeling versions, especially second flush, but it can be present in autumn versions too, just typically in a more mild flavor aspects and feel character.  A touch of citrus seemed present too; if anything the tea seemed even better even though it was a good number of rounds of infusions along.

I guess this did seem a bit like an autumn flush Darjeeling, to some extent; a bit subdued as some black teas go for astringency and feel structure, but still flavorful, complex, and well-balanced.  The initial malt aspect reminded me a little of better Assam instead.  Nepal teas are always a bit different, always their own thing.  This is a good example of one, a nice tea.