Steve Shafer on Vietnamese wild-origin teas

all photos but finished tea imaged credit Steve's FB page

The following is a series of questions and answers about Vietnamese teas, about variations in types, especially wild-origin sheng, and all sorts of related background issues with Steve Shafer of Viet Sun. 

For people who are touchy about how the pu'er / puerh designation is used outside of Yunnan, the regional type designation theme, I think it works here that his first reference is to "raw puerh style" tea, versus just calling it pu'er, and then he doesn't awkwardly keep repeating that long version.  I tend to include a similar designation statement in every related post, and then just call it sheng afterwards; there has to be some practical work-around.

Can you describe what high quality tea production looks like in Vietnam, related to the most interesting styles produced and general demand?

My experience is mostly with the old tree “wild-origin” type teas so I will comment mostly on that. For raw puerh style would be good raw material selection, wok processing compared to kill-green machine processing, single day sun-drying on bamboo mats compared to tarp drying, clean factory conditions. Factory design in these areas can be similar to what you would find in Yunnan and the other bordering countries.  

The most famous green tea in Vietnam is made in Thái Nguyên. Some people still use woks and make tea from older, seed-grown tea trees there.

 

What are your personal favorites?

I’m a raw puerh lover at heart so that makes up most of what I drink on a day to day basis. I’d say my favorite areas for Vietnamese raw puerh are Tủa Chùa, Sùng Đô, Háng Đồng and Lào Cai. I also really enjoy teas of all styles made from those wild purple varietal trees. They tend to be easy drinking, gentle on the body and have interesting physical and mental effects for me. 

What channels are selling the best teas in Vietnam now, which forms like dedicated website portals, Facebook groups, shops, etc.? 

Many tea producers are on Facebook and it’s quite common for customers to contact them directly to buy tea. There are many tea shops in major cities like Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh but it seems like only a few have success selling tea in-person to customers. Many physical tea shops have an online presence through a website and/ or social media channels which is where I’d bet most of the sales are taking place for them. 

What is next for even better tea production to develop in Vietnam?

A major factor driving this is demand. With higher demand for these good teas, more producers will focus their efforts on making them. Knowledge will be shared and the overall average quality of tea in a given area should rise. One of the most important factors in wild-origin tea production is raw material quality. Many of these tea tree areas have unsustainable management practices and a decreasing quality of raw material. With a higher demand for quality should bring about more farmers implementing more sustainable tea area management practices. The government might eventually get involved in offering protection and implementation of these more sustainable management practices as well.

If someone had already tried pretty good rolled oolong, fishhook style green tea, and sheng from Vietnam what would be next for them to explore?  New regions, even better versions, or something else?

Trying teas from other terroirs in those styles you have enjoyed and from other reputable vendors could be a good next step. Some of the classics for me would be Tủa Chùa/ Sùng Đô raw puerh, Tà Xùa green, Suối Giàng silver needle white, Hoàng Su Phì black, Cao Bồ ripe puerh. Those wild purple varietal teas from Lai Châu province can also be great but try your best to buy from vendors with sustainable tea making practices. 

Based on my experience lots of Vietnamese sheng is oxidized a little more than for mainstream Yunnan style, but in plenty of cases this can be exceptional, if drank as young tea.  Do you feel that this impacts aging potential?  Is it something that you think producers should correct for, or does it work matched with some material type, or as a local style variation?

Yes, that is quite common here. One of the biggest factors resulting in those higher oxidation teas is weather. The spring and autumn tea seasons are quite foggy/ rainy in many tea areas. Some teas could have been under withered and/ or have had a slow multi-day sun-drying stage. These two factors can both result in a higher oxidation and “reddened” tea. Another factor that results in those higher oxidation teas is lack of a good processing schedule. Some producers do not follow processing schedules conducive to making good tea. Some could be left too long after kill green/ rolling before drying, dried in a thick layer on nylon tarps etc… Weather is something we cannot change but having a good processing schedule is something we can! 

Those unintentional higher oxidation teas are very common but there are also some pleasant intentionally oxidized teas being produced. I’ve seen producers do everything that a typical high-quality raw puerh processing schedule would include but extend the time after rolling by a few hours. I’ve also seen some people dry the leaves about halfway, keep them overnight inside the factory, and then dry them in a thicker layer the following morning. 

For aging potential, I think these styles of teas are better young than aged. The oldest raw puerh in this style that I’ve tried was 5 years old and it was already almost like a black or long aged white tea. The balance of bitterness/ astringency/ sweetness was off for me but it would be interesting to see how these teas develop over longer periods of aging. These “reddened” teas could be suitable for people new to raw puerh and/or anyone looking for a more gentle, easier drinking raw puerh experience as the bitterness and astringency are reduced significantly.

Is development and increase in incomes in Vietnam proportional to awareness and demand expansion of better teas?

I think so. The economy is growing rapidly and there is a rising middle class. It seems like many people have more disposable income than before and are taking up hobbies. Healthy/ green activities are becoming more mainstream and high quality tea easily falls into that. There are new tea shops opening frequently in bigger cities like Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh. 

Are mainstream forms of better versions of teas expanding in any way?  Is there anything like a Vietnamese Dayi or Xiaguan, or a comparable large high quality tea production, marketing, and sales, across any main tea type (black, green, per region, etc.)?

A couple of larger scale companies have been around for a while and are popular in the country. Shanam, Bash Tea, Tân Cương Xanh and Trà Việt come to mind. Shanam and Bash Tea focus on wild-origin teas, Tân Cương Xanh focus on Thái Nguyên green tea and Trà Việt on a bit of everything.

Can you say a little about terroir differences in Vietnamese wild origin tea in relation to Laos or Yunnan tea?  It’s an impossibly broad theme, and one that mixes with too many other process related factors, but an example or two of how you see it would still be interesting.

I haven’t been to enough places in Yunnan and Laos to give you concrete answers but generally the weather in the tea areas in Vietnam is warmer and more humid than areas in Yunnan. Many tea areas here have foggy, humid, misty weather many months out of the year. There are more plants/ mosses/ lichens growing on and around the tea trees in Vietnam compared to Yunnan. The elevations of good tea areas in Vietnam are lower on average than the ones in Yunnan. This could result in different soil compositions/ quality?  But you’d have to ask someone with more experience than me about that. 

Can you add a little on the difference between a general wild origin “good material” theme and final prepared tea aspects varying?

In raw puerh, raw material really is king. I’ve had teas made from great raw material and rough processing that still ended up being pretty great. On the other hand I’ve had tea made from average/ lower quality raw material that was processed well and resulted in just mediocre tea. The “taste of the mountain” shines through unless the processing is really off. 

I’ve tried Thai wild origin material tea that was quite good, distinctive in different ways for different versions, but one example was unusually sour.  Is this familiar as a plant-type related input?  Of course it could also relate to a processing flaw, but it seems like an unusual flavor range approaching sourness from some purple teas isn’t completely unrelated.

Sourness is a common note in many of those wild non-Sinensis varietal teas here. That sourness can manifest as an unripe fruit, tamarind like note in certain tea styles that I really enjoy if it balances well with the other flavors. I’ve also had sourness Assamica black/ white/ puerh tea but that was due to processing issues. 

Can you say a little about purple plant type tea?

Purple tea seems to have a couple different meanings. One could be Sinensis/ Assamica tea trees that have purple leaves due to genetic defects, the other being non-Sinensis varietals.  I’ve seen the occasional Assamica tree with some purple leaves. I’ve never tried a tea made exclusively from those trees and I think it would be hard to get enough raw material to make much tea at all due to the scarcity of those trees. 

Vietnam has many varietals of those non-Sinensis tea trees growing at 1800-2500m+ in elevation. Many of these trees have purple/ red/ orange/ yellow-green leaves with different leaf shapes compared to the typical Assamica. All of those varietals could be lumped into the “purple tea” category. I really enjoy teas made from these types of trees as they are easy drinking (gentle, fragrant, sweet, low bitterness/ astringency) when produced as any style of tea. Many have a thick mouthfeel, lasting huigan and strong body effects for me.

An Assamica based oolong I’ve tried from Viet Sun was quite pleasant.  Can you add background about that tea type, if it’s prepared in a similar way as a Chinese or Taiwanese type, and how the Assamica plant type input varies?

Sure, that was made in Hoàng Su Phì, Hà Giang province. That area is high on fragrance and sweetness and lower on bitterness/ astringency. The processing combines elements of raw puerh, oolong and black tea processing. It undergoes a long withering, shaking, medium-oxidation, wok kill-green, rolling, sun-drying and roasting. It is a loose leaf style so would be comparable to a strip-style oolong but the raw material input makes it look more like a loose-leaf raw puerh. The tea maker who makes our tea recommends aging it for at least a year. He mentions that the aging period really helps settle it down and become more balanced. Seems like it can be difficult to make that raw material work as an oolong. 

A Western-facing outlet like Hatvala has built up better Vietnamese tea awareness over a number of years.  Do you feel that Viet Sun customers are generally coming from that prior exposure, or is it more that people learn of better Vietnamese tea more than continue earlier demand for it?

We have a handful of customers who have tried Hatvala teas, enjoyed them and wanted to explore other options from Vietnam. Many of our customers have never heard about (or at least anything good about) Vietnamese tea but have found out about us through word of mouth or social media/ chat forums. It seems like a good percentage of our customers are Yunnan tea enthusiasts and with our catalog being “puerh” heavy,  it makes sense that they might be more willing to try teas from vendors like us. 

Are you being contacted by Western (US or European) shops about them carrying Vietnamese teas, or are your customers only tea enthusiasts making direct purchases?

Yes, we wholesale to a handful of businesses in the US, Canada and Europe as well as International retail. 

Thoughts on this discussion

Really the point here was to share Steve's input, to allow readers to access some of the types of ideas I sometimes run across in talking to vendors or producers.  I wanted to add just a little on how I took these ideas though.

The last two questions about development of tea awareness and demand in Vietnam related to my curiosity about trends tending to come and go in tea circles, to versions from Nepal or Georgia becoming popular, and known for quality and good character, for example.  To me Vietnam is sort of a different case because plenty of range of tea has been produced there for a long time, and quality levels have certainly been mixed, but they didn't just start producing good versions recently.  Maybe some are more consistent and better recently, but I've tried great Vietnamese tea versions for years, and it was always odd that the word didn't get out faster.  

For living in Thailand I probably shouldn't add that Vietnamese teas at the higher end have been more diverse and just better than from Thailand for years, but at least the best Thai versions are now catching up and holding their own.  There were rare exceptions before, and sheng has previously been inconsistent from both countries.

I was wondering to what extent that awareness and demand shift is happening now, and Steve covered a few points that relate to that.  Hopefully it ramps up fast enough for Steve's business to do well, for him to keep offering interesting and pleasant teas, but maybe not fast enough to outpace production, so pricing stays as favorable as it currently is.

Sort of related, the two versions I bought recently I love more and more as I keep drinking them (a black tea and sheng).  Sometimes you can try something exceptional and it's the novelty that carries the experience, something like quality level markers showing through, and other times you can relate to more basic teas even better, because they match what you like, and the limitations mean little in relation to the positive aspects or overall impression.  The best case is when good teas click for you, not necessarily those matching a standard type the best, or showing off quality through the most rare or refined aspects, but just good, pleasant versions.  Those you can enjoy over and over.  

Dian Hong often tends to be like that for me, and to me that black tea seems related to that character range.  Slightly atypical versions of sheng, related to Yunnan character range, can relate to different terroir input, or to processing variations.  In some cases the balance seems off, and in others novel flavors and extra complexity really comes together.  For me the Sơn La version balance really worked.

The rest of what Steve said covers ideas that are familiar; we have discussed similar things, or they've come up talking to other friends in Vietnam.  His input expressed a lot of range clearly and concisely, extending what I've heard before.  The parts about concerns related to sustainability, sourness in atypical plant type versions, on purple teas, and on typical regional aspect character were particularly interesting to me.  It was great that Steve was open to discussing other source options as much as he did, to help place where the whole market stands; vendors usually aren't like that.

Many thanks to Steve for sharing these ideas!

this sheng brewed color matches part of the story told here