The cancellation of Andrew Huberman, science-lifestyle podcaster

 

To me this is an interesting story.  A well-regarded, well-credentialed, science-oriented life advice podcaster--Andrew Huberman--rises to new heights of fame and following, and is later "cancelled" for personal reasons, basically for having 5 or more exclusive relationship girlfriends at the same time.  

Should that get him cancelled?  What does it really mean in relation to that life advice?  To me those aren't even the most interesting angles.  The better questions that arise relate to why so many people accepted his ideas so completely, and why opinions are divided between seeing his personal life choices as not relevant and this calling into question his general credibility.

It all originated from this New York magazine story, Andrew Huberman’s Mechanisms of Control :The private and public seductions of the world’s biggest pop neuroscientist.  I just noticed that they put "Joe Rogan" in the web page name, even though he played essentially no part in any of this, beyond helping Huberman rise to fame.  That's SEO I guess.

Let's work backwards, and start with what he did, and then who he is, on to how to take this.  He was in a relationship that was framed as monogamous with one woman, over a period of years, extending that as far as attempting to have children at one point (allegedly; it's hard to know how much of any one-source account is accurate).  Then it turned out that he was in serious relationships with at least 4 other women at the same time, and maybe more.  The coordination is admirable, on one level.

So what?  The problem was that he communicated the relationships were exclusive to each, per the story, not only adjusting his partners' expectations but influencing their decision to have unprotected sex, which is lower risk in an exclusive relationship.  Per the story spreading STDs did come up, which have been rebranded as STIs in recent times, broadened to include other conditions.  It's all not such unusual behavior, but it is immoral.

I've seen Huberman on some podcasts but I wasn't really a follower.  The ideas seemed fine, including some that I already subscribed to.  He recommended that people shouldn't even consume moderate amounts of alcohol, not for moral reasons, but because it causes more health impact than is generally accepted.  I essentially quit drinking alcohol some years ago, maybe 5 or 6, and drank very little for a decade before that, and it does seem like life might balance a little better without that input.  He recommended getting sun early in the day, and moderating or adjusting the form of caffeine intake, and any number of other things (including ice baths, maybe?).  Most of it is probably pretty good, well-grounded advice.

It's odd that all this isn't really directly derived from his scientific researcher background, or so it seems.  Per that article he researched optical conditions and regeneration capabilities in mice, pretty far from the scope of all this life advice.  He could sort through scientific materials in a different way than others, based on the general background, and what he pursued of his own interests might be directly relevant, based on sound research, and worthy of sharing.

Let's clear up a bit of extra context and tangents and then move on to the main themes, how this cancellation worked out, and what seems interesting about it to me.  To frame where I stand on the general research based advice theme, I've been following another "science-guy" Youtube channel that perhaps overlaps in scope, Physionic, described as follows:

Detailed multi-study analyses, clear explanations of mechanisms underlying the results, and a sprinkling of cheeky humor. Learn your body, from the macro to the micro - welcome to Physionic.

So I can relate to the instinctive desire to learn from someone who is drawing on and summarizing research materials that it would be hard to interpret, related to diet, exercise, supplement use, new atypical practice topics like ice baths, and so on.  I get how credentials, charisma, and well-grounded information could be more compelling in combination.  The Leo and Longevity Youtube channel had been a similar resource, focused more on longevity and experimental drug use, or steroids and such, but Leo died under mysterious circumstances last year, leading to me searching out a replacement, Physionic.

I've recently ran across a Reddit Huberman sub (group), which is the main prompt to write this post.  They're rejecting him there now; it's one sided, and even a bit ugly.  The comments on that original article, describing his relationship issues, are divided; half say that his personal relationships aren't relevant to his role as a "pop neuroscientist," with the other half calling into question his personal credibility.  The reason that resource made the subject more interesting is that I find the reactions interesting.

One odd input condition stands out in that article, tied to the latter theme:  Huberman is endorsed by Athletic Greens.  Per my understanding that product theme works off the older spirulina miracle food status by mixing lots of other natural inputs or supplements with that.  Then that can be regarded as controversial, because they combine 75 ingredients into a supplement marketed as a way to replace vegetable input in the diet.  This quote sums that up, from their website:

that's Huberman saying that

Could you get a basis of important vitamins, minerals, and probiotics from a scoop or two of that per day?  Maybe, but it seems doubtful.  If it was designed to be more like Soylent, a balanced input supplement designed to replace a meal then that kind of large-scope claim seems more likely, not as a green foods variation of a protein shake.

Why his relationship status doesn't matter, the argument

Seems obvious enough, but let's go there.  It's Huberman's business who he dates, and if he misrepresents his relationship status with women that's a bit sketchy but it's still up to him.  The life advice / pop neuroscientist theme is relatively completely separate.

This response and perspective is a critique of cancel culture, of the pattern of blaming individuals and and striking them down from public acceptance for personal shortcomings, even when these aren't even close to illegal activity, or even vaguely related to why they are popular, or tied to what they communicate.  This resonates with me; I think if Huberman is giving useful, science-based life advice then how he manages dating and relationships isn't relevant to that theme.

Why connecting relationship issues and giving practical life advice makes sense

There is something to this theme of critiquing general reliability and authenticity.  Within the scope of longevity study, for example, research into extending human life-span, cases of researchers recommending supplements that they have a commercial interest in comes up.  It seems possible that the science based, practical guidance could be adjusted when it relates to the person offering it making money off it.

This isn't that case though.  It moves the concern all the way back to far more general reliability; is this a trustworthy individual?  I don't have a great read on Huberman, for not having seen much of his content, but my initial impression was positive.  Just not positive enough to seek out more content, I guess, but then I'm pretty inconsistent about what I watch on Youtube.  It ends up being filtered more for varying and random subject interest than practical impact, so that I might be watching content on cave diving one week and about streamed content reviews for shows that I don't watch the next.

To me the Athletic Greens / AG1 sponsorship really is a bit more troubling.  That's fine for content producers like Joe Rogan; if any viewers are making life choices or supplement purchases based on his input that's up to them, and they have to already know that it's not grounded by the latest scientific research.  Huberman should be more careful.  Is it that Athletic Greens might really be a fantastic product?  Instead of being unconvinced I'm more actively skeptical, and doubt it, but in fairness I don't know.

Just because Huberman continually lied to some of the people he was closest to in personal life that doesn't mean that he would be dishonest about findings he communicates in his podcast.  If the right conditions came up he probably would, but it's not clear that they ever do, beyond that one sponsor endorsement issue.

Extremist reactions from Huberman followers

This might be the most interesting part.  People in that Reddit sub are already talking about cancelling Athletic Greens subscriptions, and potentially disregarding the other life advice that they had accepted.  I'm not really going to address that here, that some people are taking this so seriously, as if it changes everything.  Maybe it should, but not everyone would follow that logic.

It's interesting to me that people were seeking out this kind of reference and personal authority to follow to begin with.  As a personable, interesting, and potentially valuable information source why not; Huberman's podcast was probably novel and helpful.  Positioning him as a thought leader or life coach I don't get.

And this is also why people feel so personally betrayed, related to him not being the person they thought he was.  But then they had no idea how he managed his personal life, so all that was projection from an online persona image anyway.  

If he was just sharing some ideas, drawing on research and his own developed perspective, then none of that matters.  If he had been taken up and placed in a role model / life coach role it all shifts.

Then source-image branding factors in.  He was built up as the next great resource, as I took the framing.  That guy that creates Physionic content isn't like that; he frames himself as an advanced grad student researcher sorting out some modern themes, like whether turmeric works or not, or whether doing more or less reps when weightlifting is better (just more on the drug / supplement theme side).  

Leo of Leo and Longevity was always framed as kind of an unconventional, strange guy; he started his Youtube career as a penis extension specialist, then moved on to longevity and biohacking themes, talking a lot about steroids.  He openly said that others shouldn't experiment as much and as freely as he did, with lots of things.  Part of his personal exploration involved taking significant risks, not following well-established and grounded practices.  Huberman framed it all as solid life-practice advice, both explicitly and implicitly.  

When it came up that Leo had abusive tendencies in his marriage relationship--as I remember those circumstances--his popularity dipped, and he became inactive for a time, but there wasn't an established idealistic image that he wasn't living up to.  He was always out there.  Huberman was supposed to be some sort of ultra-modern, research oriented, renaissance man.

Maybe he still is that; he was never supposed to be perfect.  Maybe this will be the rare case where all of this blows over.  More likely the drop in popularity that was going to cycle through eventually will be triggered now, and he will retain influence and popularity with some proportion of his earlier audience.  A podcaster like Joe Rogan might have him on again just to talk through cancel culture experience, to highlight how he and his platform are immune to the whims of people who want to initiate that pattern.  It will be interesting to see, but I won't be following it closely, since I never really was a fan anyway.  I'm more a student of these kinds of patterns; to me they are interesting.

One last take

This was an interesting summary, a post in that Huberman Reddit sub titled I'm disgusted by how much I relish this:

On the whole, I enjoyed Huberman's podcast. Setting aside the exhausting tedium and BS ads for supplements and salt, I took away a lot of useful information. In the wake of the NY Mag article, though, I'm getting a kind of sick enjoyment from watching the dumpster fire.

Maybe it's alleviating an insecurity in me, seeing someone I subconsciously compared myself to get exposed as being so egregiously flawed. Maybe it's satisfying to watch deplorable behavior being met with justice. Maybe it's cathartic to imagine a vaguely smug demeanor getting wiped off someone's face.

Whatever the case, in the last couple days, I've been on this subreddit more than in all the time leading up, and I get the sense that it's not very healthy or productive for me to keep indulging in someone else's demise, at least not at this rate. Just thought I'd put that out there in case it resonates with anyone.

It might not be that people are so upset over their hero being torn down, or that people who were always skeptical are happy to be validated.  It may just be that people love to watch things burn.

Greengold Georgian black teas comparison, Taiguli and Kolkhida

 

I'm back to reviewing, trying out two Greengold Georgian black teas, Taiguli and Kolkhida versions.  Those names don't mean anything to me, so I'll cite their website descriptions following:

TAIGULI, in English meaning “Bouquet”, is made from freshly harvested finest tea leaves. Full of tips and plucked by the hands of the local villagers. Made according to the traditional Georgian Black Tea technology, with some corrections of the modern one, that gives an unique taste.

An ideal fine tea to drink until mid-afternoon. The light amber color indicates that it is a black tea. It is a clean tea since it does not present any glaze or deposits. Bright and alive tea. The aromatic intensity is moderate.

The liquor has a predominant malt aroma. The wood is sharp and you could almost tell it is unique. The taste of the tea is sweet at first but is slightly bitter and light-bodied when swallowed.

KOLKHIDA  TEA is made on Black seaside historical region “Kolkheti Lowland”, where high mountain fresh air meets the sea breeze. This special place has it’s unique climate which has an effect on the leaves. Unique KOLKHIDA taste, which you can find only in Georgia, comes from the Kolkhida tea leaves, which is massively used in this tea.

A fine tea, clean and bright, apparently dense, that can accompany you throughout the day. The liqueur displays malty, spicy and cooked lemon aromas. Sweet tea with a smooth body. The malt flavour remains for a long time. You can also appreciate a camphor flavour that gives a burning sensation.

I might also mention that the last set of teas I tried from them, also sent by Nika of Greengold for review, was fantastic, much better than I could have expected they would be.  I suppose that set a high level of expectations for these, and although they were pretty good it was a lot to live up to.

We had talked to Nika in a meetup back in 2021, which includes more of his story, about renewing production at an older tea plantation in Georgia.  That's covered in very limited detail here, in a post with more about two of the earlier black teas.

Nika, and tea plants

I've just moved back to Honolulu, here for 3 months to rejoin the kids, who are finishing up their second school year over that time, who I've been separated from for almost all of the past 7 months.  It's great, being in Hawaii.  I should write a post about what it's like here, since adding a couple of pictures and a couple of sentences wouldn't do it justice.  

Probably being at the tail end of jet lag and busy with kids' spring break activities didn't help with this review.  It was rushed, as they tend to be, but I had less initial focus to work with.  Brewed tea color is all over the place, surely related to shifting infusion timing.  Part of that relates to zeroing in on an optimum, and checking results at different infusion intensities, and it's also partly about that lack of focus.  It's not quiet where I live now.

Review:

Taiguli:  a little light; I used the standard approach of getting a first impression from a light round before a true review test.  This is interesting; moderate oxidation level input maybe?  Flavors are warm and pleasant, along the line of soft and warm malt.  It has some oolong character for lacking much astringency edge, and being soft and full.

Kolkhida:  this tastes like a familiar flavor set from teas sold as Golden Monkey in China.  Those teas always have a Chinese name too, and a typical origin area background, but that's the kind of thing I explored more in my first years trying and writing about teas, that particular type range.  Later I stayed more focused on Dian Hong, with Fujian, Chaozhou area, and Taiwanese blacks mixed in.  A different but related malt range stands out.  This extends more into rye bread scope as well.  A stronger infusion will help with adding more flavor and character breakdown.

To clarify I don't think this is a complete match for that style; I'm adding these comparisons as a reference point.  The teas definitely weren't made to copy any Chinese versions; they're presented as local products that represent modern, updated interpretations of traditional local tea styles.

Taiguli, #2:  I might have went a little strong, compensating for the slow start, brewing these for about 20 seconds.  This definitely has some edge now.  The flavor set is interesting and unusual.  It includes herb notes, along the line of fennel seed.  Sweetness is pleasant.  There are fruit tones that are hard to break down to a list; maybe along the line of dried elderberry.  The feel has an unusual dryness to it.  In the end the effect is interesting but not overly well balanced.  Drinking this brewed a little lighter will probably help it balance.  

Going back and drinking this after the other tea there is a vegetal range aspect that stands out, which is hard to describe.  It tastes a bit like when you bite into a grape seed, extended on to leaf character, so maybe like tasting a grape plant leaf or stem.

Kolkhida:  interesting!  For favoring Dian Hong most, Yunnan black tea, it's still pleasant, but not the optimum range and balance, per my preferences.  It has nice depth, and it seems to balance better, for the different layers or inputs to support each other better.  

One part is that malt tone, no longer as dominant as a singular main flavor, which again extends to bread range, or even fennel seed.  Another aspect is a savory but sweet quality, along the line of sun-dried tomato.  Mineral range is pronounced, with one part of that range coming across almost like salt; that's unusual.  I just drank a Thai version of pressed shai hong yesterday that this overlaps a good bit with, with a touch of tartness, as occurs in that tea as well.  To me it hangs together well enough.  It might evolve in character and balance even better during a third lighter infusion.

Taiguli, #3:  I'm not reaching the optimum infusion strength balance here; this is too light again.  It works like this but it's no good for ideal experience and review.  Vegetal tone eases up and warmth stands out more; it's nice.  It's not my favorite black tea range for the set of aspects but it's fine.

Kolkhida:  a wine-like character picks up, entering in where sundried tomato and some berry left off earlier.  This also isn't my absolute favorite black tea range, but it's closer.  I like these teas but it's odd not absolutely loving them.  All of the Greengold teas were so good the last round that I couldn't critique them much in terms of style, quality, or aspects range, and for these two how much someone likes either would depend on preference.  It's as if these are more experimental versions, working with different styles to make different forms of tea.  It seems like the first, the Taiguli version, is backed off in terms of oxidation level.

Taiguli, #4:  the best this has been; that's a good sign, that it evolves positively, even though it's also about just getting an infusion strength balance right.  Warm and sweet tones stand out the most so far, with pleasant spice-like undertone.  There's a little tartness and vegetal range too.  The next infusion, #5, is even better, but these notes leave off here.

Kolkhida:  this balances better than ever too.  A higher level of sweetness is pleasant, and the mix of aspects balances better.  That sun-dried tomato savory tone really complements the rest.

One thing I'm not commenting on here is a range of weaknesses or flaws that aren't present.  If teas are truly badly made then more sourness would occur (although I suppose either of these could be interpreted as slightly sour, I just don't see it that way), or flavors could be murky, less clear.  Sweetness could be lacking, throwing off balance, or vegetal tones could be even stronger, although there is some of that in both these, just more in the Taiguli version.

Conclusion:

Good teas, interesting and pleasant, even though these aren't a direct match to my favorite black tea aspect and character preference.  I've been spoiled for drinking some amazing teas over the years, and tend to focus in on range I really love, the warm and sweet, balanced, cacao, roasted sweet potato and yam, Chinese date towards dark cherry fruit in Dian Hong and related style versions.  Vegetal range and tartness doesn't come up much, in what I tend to drink.  Neither version of these was tart but one included some vegetal range.

I don't see any of the aspects in these as any sort of flaw, just normal style variations.  The quality level was quite good.  The form of malt in these varied from Chinese tea versions and Assam, for example, closer to one Chinese tea version in one case but still a little different.  I think I might have really loved their oolongs better earlier on, and for being surprised at how good all the teas were I might have built up an unreasonable expectation from memory, expecting all of them to match the best of any teas made anywhere.  These were good, pleasant and distinctive, but they don't change everything for me related to tea experience.

It's an interesting start, and there are many more samples to get to, again shared by Nika of Greengold.  I expect that character of most others will be as good or better, and that many will match my main aspect preferences even better.

on a ridgeline hike, again

Hanauma Bay, a wonderful nature preserve and snorkeling area

sunset at the beach; in Waikiki, near our small apartment

Four-day fasting update; cooking while fasting, home-made Gatorade

I posted about a recent planned 5 day fast in a Reddit fasting sub, cut short to 4 days, which I'll also share here as an update.  The part about making a variation of Gatorade to make the electrolytes more pleasant (sodium and potassium salts) was interesting to me.

It's not a new theme, trying out tisane blends during fasting, but this worked better than earlier attempts. I used lime from the garden, about a quarter of a normal size lime worth, since they were tiny, and stevia for sweetness, along with a bit of jasmine green tea. Then I mixed some of the nasty salt water I've been drinking with that, and it was fine, actually delicious. I drank most of that salt water the normal way though, just working through it.

they're an unusual variation of a lime, maybe even a small type of orange

The first and second days were easier than ever, with less experience of hunger than before. Really that was true of the 3rd through 5th fasts, just in a different sense. Energy level and productivity at work didn't seem disrupted at all (I started on a Thursday, so the crux would be over the weekend). On-site office work ran late on Friday, and I didn't get out until 7, and it was fine.

There isn't much for approach or hacks to pass on. I drank electrolytes without monitoring amounts over the first two days, which is not ideal, just mixing some Less Salt and salt into water a few times a day, and taking magnesium capsules. It's better to figure out how much sodium, potassium, and magnesium intake works for you and mix up a daily drink mix, it's just easier to carry a bit of salt to work than the liquid. I had a calf cramp in the night after the second day; I was probably a little low on potassium, so I went back to a measured approach the next morning.

For me the middle range of electrolytes seems to work out, based on the sodium and potassium recommendations in that Reddit fasting sub reference, just over 2 grams each, with sodium slightly higher. For magnesium taking a supplement pill in the morning and evening seems to work well, adding up to more than they recommend there, but not a crazy amount.

I only drank that one tisane the whole time, that one I thought of as a variation of Gatorade, but perhaps it wasn't that close.  Some people would avoid anything but water and the salts, to really lean into the detox theme, but to me drinking some tisane / herb tea is fine, surely not all that impactful or toxic.  It's a helpful way to be able to experience "eating" something, to settle your stomach, and it helps with reminding you to stay hydrated, versus drinking liters of plain water a day.

For tea I drank shou pu'er in the morning on the first three days, a bit of green tea and tisanes at work the second day, and aged white tea, shou mei, on the last day.  Not lots of any of those teas either; one Western brewing round's worth of shou I split over two days of brewing.

I can do light exercise while fasting, and walked about 3km / 1 1/2 miles as part of a commute on the second day.  In general I limit jogging to 2 miles, nowhere near a routine run, but I was so busy with other things that I didn't run.

I cooked during the fast; that was odd.  On two different days too, making up food to bring to a set of cousins who are in poor health.  I made chicken and dumpling soup, home-made meatballs and spaghetti, and lots of steamed vegetables.  

I ended up going to a grocery store two days in a row, and a bakery on one of them; it's as well to not be around food that much, if it works out not to.  I cooked so much that my mother-in-law and I can eat that for a few days too.  Of course it increased my hunger level some, and I think my stomach producing more digestive fluids came with another odd side effect the next day, as something to expel.  Fasting can be strange like that though, the odd extra body function here or there.

It went great.  The main story line, to me, was being able to stay ridiculously busy and productive while not eating for four days, and feeling mostly normal while doing it.

Why even fast?  I've covered all that in a half dozen earlier update posts.  It's not to lose weight; I didn't weigh myself, and we don't have a scale at our house.  There are lots of likely health benefits, especially related to reducing diabetes risk, eliminating fat content in internal organs, and between them, and offsetting cancer and other risks, through the process of autophagy, your body recycling and using inactive cells for an energy source.  I'm not absolutely convinced it works as promoted, because accounts of all that seem to stop short of research findings about that process, but it probably is quite healthy for you.

It also works as a diet reset.  My diet is pretty good, so there's only so much change to be made, but I think that's probably the main potential benefit for most people.  You can easily recognize when eating habits only relate to triggers, or habitual patterns, and it stands out when genuine hunger cues drive the process instead.  

You are hungry the whole time during a multi-day fast, to an extent, but it's a different form of hunger, more just feeling empty, and I'm talking more about relationship with foods and eating than just that one part.  Fasting helps you reset approach to diet, and eating habits, in ways that are hard to describe.  Or you can go right back to eating junk all the time, but it gives you that short window of opportunity to make a limited amount of changes.

I think fasting helps with my mental clarity, but that part can be vague, and people might seem to experience whatever they expect to.  When people describe how pleasant fasting can be, experiencing unusual clarity and euphoria, I can't really relate to all that, but I think I am slightly clearer mentally as a result, afterwards and even during the fast.

back to my normal diet!  jk; this place is new in Bangkok.

the latest theme is travel; I'll get back to that