2013 Wawee Thai sheng, 2015 Vietnamese sheng from the Hien Minh shop

 

both seem to include bud content (Thai tea left)

A friend not so recently passed on a few Russian and Thai teas to try, and I lost track of this version, a 2013 Wawee (Thai village area) sheng.  It's probably the most interesting version of that set too, since it will be nice to experience how storage and time changed it.  I've been meaning to retry a Vietnamese sheng version I bought some of as maocha some years back, from the Hien Minh shop in Hanoi, Vietnam, so comparison will make sense, seeing how both held up at the same time.

I don't want to go too far with backstory or speculation here; this is mostly just going to be about these tea experiences.  Storage conditions differences will throw off making any direct comparison, and I don't know how these were stored, beyond holding onto one myself for some years (the past 4).  The Vietnamese version is maocha, not pressed, and that may help even out the two year age difference, since it should age slightly faster that way, but again who knows.

I'm curious to see how these relate to discussion and my own observations about whether or not some other Thai and Vietnamese sheng versions were made in styles that are well suited for aging (positive fermentation transition).  I don't want to get to far into all that either though.  Some versions I've tried from across South East Asia have seemed a bit more oxidized early on, and a limited amount of bitterness and astringency could've indicated processing wasn't a complete match for the most typical Yunnan range.

I had thought that the Pho Nhi Song reference on the label must have referred to an area, but in writing about that four years ago I described it as Tay Con Linh area tea from Ha Giang (I think), based on reviewing documented product details then.  Let's take a look:

Of course that listing, description, and price are all very out of date now; that probably wasn't current when I bought the tea back in 2019.  It's odd that it was quite bitter earlier on; even in 2019 in my notes I didn't see much about that.  And hard to place that it seemed "grassy;" often that would relate to a green tea edge, tied to a sheng being heated a bit much during processing.  If it instead means that it had a more hay-like neutral and warm tone that's something else.

Some people might be offended that the word pu'er (puerh) is used for Vietnamese tea, or more specifically any tea produced outside of Yunnan.  I see no problem with vendors making any particular naming convention judgement call related to that, skipping it to only call it sheng, settling on hei cha or dark tea, whatever they choose.  Anyone likely to drink sheng knows what they mean regardless of that choice, and I don't get upset about language convention choices, even when someone uses "literally" to add emphasis, but to mean figuratively.

the Vietnamese tea label, not matching that product summary naming

Review:

2013 Wawee Thai sheng:  I let this version brew a little longer, towards 20 seconds instead of around 10 for the other, to adjust for it needing more time to decompress.

Bitterness is still a main aspect, even though the tea is still a bit subtle, surely due to not being completely wetted yet.  The rest is nice, and the overall balance, the other warm earthier tones, a warm mineral range and some aromatic wood towards spice and dried fruit.  It'll all be a lot more pronounced the next round, I would imagine, once intensity from being wet will pick up, so I'll leave it at that.  It tastes good; quality seems fine, per an initial impression.

2015 Pho Nhi Song Vietnamese sheng (I'm not sure what that label heading meant; I suppose it's at least possible that I'm mixing up two versions, but I don't think so):  this is much more unusual.  Bitterness level will seemingly be much lower, but it includes other interesting flavor range that stands out, a hint of dried mushroom, and a sweetness tied to something along the lines of dried fruit.  Ordinarily I don't love dried mushroom flavor in tea but I bet that will fade pretty fast, as other flavors enter in.  I'm pretty sure it wasn't there earlier, it wasn't mentioned in my earlier review of this.  There is good other flavor complexity, a sweet, warm spice range that's not unlike that in the other tea.  I think both will be nice, but it will be interesting comparing a sheng version with pronounced bitterness with one that has lost it through transition changes.

I should mention that I stored something like a remaining 50 grams worth, partly to see how it might change, and just to have a chance to try it later.  That's not really ideal; storing more together would be better.  I don't think I tried this during the covid era, so that sealed bag probably hasn't been opened in three years, although maybe I did, since I wouldn't necessarily remember.

Thai tea left, in all photos

2013 Thai sheng, second infusion:  bitterness isn't too strong in relation to the rest; it strikes a good balance.  A very pronounced perfumelike floral range entered in.  That's great in combination with the warm mineral tone already present, and the other warm aspect range, now settling into a mix of warm aromatic dark wood and incense.  There is plenty of intensity in this tea to keep age transitioning for as long as one would keep it around; it seemingly wouldn't ever go quiet, as some versions can.  Concern about it possibly being made in a style best drank within a few years of production is not an issue.  Intensity, positive aspect range, balance, and refinement are all good; this is really nice tea.  

For someone seeking a relatively age-transitioned version--for which drinking a 10 year old version wouldn't make sense--this would have a ways to go, probably not there in 5 more years.  I wonder how it was stored.  Hot and humid Thai conditions can tend to rush that process, and this is in a good place for that time-frame, seemingly not rushed by that input.  For storage in Bangkok I would expect some heavier flavor tones to have entered in, and maybe a trace of mustiness, but at least even heavier aspect range, and it would only be so much cooler and drier in the north of Thailand.  

Speaking of that we just visited the upper middle of Thailand, as far up as Phitsanulok, and it was down to 15 C there in the night (60 F), absolutely frigid for us, a great change of pace.  This cool season has been extra cool.

2015 Vietnamese sheng:  as with the other version this really shines, based on showing more of it's true character in a second round.  Floral tone picked up for this too, and the mushroom edge backed way off, hardly identifiable, if at all.  Sweetness really stands out, in a warm and rich form.  For being like this it could appeal quite a bit to black tea drinkers; it's not exactly in the most conventional range for sheng, even though those vary an awful lot and then transition in many different ways.  I'm a sheng drinker, mostly, but I really like it.  It has great depth and intensity, and I don't necessarily miss bitterness being present.

To be clear it doesn't taste like a black tea; it's just mild, complex, rich, and sweet in a way that isn't so far removed from Yunnan style black teas.  For this being so approachable you could really push it, brew it stronger, and experience a range of different effects from it.  I probably wouldn't, except to see how that might go, but the potential is definitely there, since there is no need to "brew around" any input range as to pronounced at one strength.

Thai, #3:  it's interesting that this brews a little darker than the other; I suppose it's possible that a difference in storage forms made it ferment more, even beyond that extra 2 year input.  Or it could mostly be that?  

Bitterness is still pronounced, but it keeps integrating better, as other range picks up, now even with that input.  The strong floral tone is again pleasant, again supported nicely by other complex warm tones.  Feel seems richer, as a main change, and aftertaste experience lengthens.  Again this is pretty good tea (an individual and preference-oriented judgement; what do I know of the highest quality range of sheng versions?).

Vietnamese:  a spice incense aspect stands out most now; interesting.  Maybe along the lines of sandalwood?  I would need re-training, or at least more exposure, to be more familiar with that range again.  My hippie days were a long time ago, experimenting with incense exposure and all the rest.

It's going to sound like I think the other tea is a better match to conventional form, and better, more complex and better integrated, but this doesn't give up anything in terms of complexity or pleasantness of the experience.  There's a lot going on; layers of aspects, that are well-integrated.  And it's unique; this doesn't necessarily remind me of much other prior tea experience.  The Thai version may well be better suited for another decade of transition, since it is certainly more intense, but even then I don't think that it's necessarily right that one should drink this right away because it's only going to fade.  It's quite pleasant, and in a few more years it will be pleasant in a different way.  In 10 more it might be giving up too much related to limited intensity, or maybe not.  At a guess drinking this now, or within the next 5 or 6 years, makes the most sense, but that's just a guess.

But was it better 4 years ago, when I bought it?  I'd have to read an earlier review; I'm not sure.  Probably it was just different then, appealing in a different way.  As I remember it was quite nice then.

Thai, #4:  an interesting lemon citrus aspect picked up in this.  I've been critical of a broad pattern of tea reviewing where teas are described as completely different from round to round, usually experiencing changes as incremental myself, a shift in an aspect or two, or maybe a couple picking up while a couple taper off, but these teas are both changing a good bit each round.  

Bitterness keeps fading, dropping out gradually, and floral range is still pronounced, but the overall balance shifted quite a bit.  Warm tones still support the rest, but brighter range is more a factor now.  No need to keep saying that this is good, but it's good.  Feel changed a little too; it had been rich and velvety, and that's still there, but a touch more dryness entered in.  Varying infusion strengths, not being consistent about timing, is probably causing some of that.

Vietnamese:  that rich incense spice aspect is really nice.  If it was standing more alone, not as well integrated into other range it works well with, it would still be pleasant, but the overall effect is coming from that, the way it all ties together.  

I think I'm probably understating the degree to which bitterness and a feel structure characteristic of sheng is supporting that, since some similar range stands out more in the other version.  And I'm probably scaling back descriptions details some in relation to reviewing two teas together.  If I hadn't been doing that I surely would've focused in to explain more how other inputs are building up to these two different overall effects.  For example, there is some subtle input of dried fruit in this tea still, which I'm not really mentioning in descriptions, since I've been focusing on what stands out the most.  It's a lot to take in, and a lot to write, and experiencing the contrast, the differences, stands out as one more thing to contemplate and experience.  The warm mineral range is similar in both, which I've also just mentioned in passing.  

To add more description to that I think this tea tastes a good bit like dried Chinese date, jujube, a flavor experience that I really love, from being completely addicted to an ice, bean, and fruit Chinese desert version.  It's a little towards dried longan too, which is also in that desert.  I suppose that helps explain why I feel a connection with this tea experience, that it expresses a range that's a personal favorite.

Thai, #5:  pretty similar to the last round; the pace of transitions is leveling off.  Again I'm marveling at how pleasant this tea experience is, and how much further potential this aspect range seems to indicate.  The bitterness and bit of dryness wouldn't be for everyone, as it stands now, but for people accustomed to drinking younger sheng this is approachable and well-balanced.  It should only become more so, with plenty of complexity and intensity remaining, as that bitterness transitions to more fruit and warmer aspect range.

Vietnamese:  also pretty similar to the last round, not giving up much intensity yet, but it's possible that it is starting to fade just a little.  That warm dried fruit and spice range is just great.  Why would it be so pronounced, after just 8 years, when plenty of sheng versions are still settling out of rougher edge young character around that time, still bitter and astringent?  I can't rule out atypical processing as an input causing that, something along the lines of an extra bit of oxidation.  If it is that it didn't rob the tea of potential to be quite pleasant, complex, and interesting 8 years along in age.  It's possible the factor of maocha age transitioning (fermenting) a bit faster is part of it.

Thai version (left) slightly more broken; both vary in color some

Thai, #6:  similar, maybe giving up a little intensity, so that it's finally time to lengthen infusion time a bit.  I've been brewing these around 10 seconds, not so long, but that's plenty of time for gaiwans this full.  One difference that I didn't mention, which is evident in photos, is that the Thai tea is slightly more broken, while the Vietnamese version is completely whole leaf.  That will change the character, boosting compound extraction that is more astringent in this Thai version.  This balance of aspects works well though; it's pleasant.

Vietnamese:  warm spice, dried fruit, and floral tones make this still very pleasant, I suppose giving it an edge in pleasantness of experience at this round's stage over the other.  Both are good, this just works really well.  Earlier a heavier mouthfeel and extended aftertaste made the other Thai version seem higher in quality, but to me the overall effect those types of inputs develop is the thing, not enjoyment for the sake of any one aspect.  Stretching both of these using a 20+ second infusion could be interesting, and that would make for a good place to stop taking notes.  Of course the teas are far from finished, and an interesting late round transition could happen, but it's all a bit much to type or read.

Thai, #7:  better, a bit stronger again.  I think drinking sheng on the light side works slightly better, because intensity is usually fine with that moderated, but the way this hits is nice.  That one band of complex flavors in this is really pleasant.  The citrus I've described has warmed, now onto more of a blood orange range, and the warm tones aren't woody and spice oriented as much as towards dried tamarind range, which of course connects a little with rich and sweet orange.  Bitterness has finally eased to a secondary input, which is nice, although it wasn't unpleasant before, for someone acclimated to an even higher level.

Vietnamese:  I'm surprised that this maintains intensity and complexity as well as it does; it would've seemed more conventional for something expressing this range to narrow more, or even fade slightly.  It's not doing that.  Part of that warm rich tone range seems to edge towards maple syrup taste; that's different.  The feel isn't thinning, complexity isn't dropping off, and aftertaste experience isn't narrowing, although that was never as pronounced or extreme as it might've been.  It's good.  Again I think I like this experience slightly more than the other for this round, where the opposite may have been truer in the earlier rounds.  The other tea seems to have more aging potential, to me, but this could be really good after another 3 or 4 years to deepen in character.  Both are nice, nicer than I really expected, and I'm already a fan of this general range of tea types.

Conclusions:

I did go back and check the initial review of this Vietnamese version, in 2019.  It seems a bit patchy in terms of review form and detail level; I guess that settled to a more standard form here later on.  Given that status I can't say much about how it changed over the first 4 years in comparison with the second; it sounds different.  It would've been nice if that focused more on bitterness level, astringency, other mouthfeel concerns, specific mention of complexity and intensity, and a guess about aging potential, and likely early transition.  It sounded good then, and just different now.  Let's consider that earlier description, more about review form difference than it is informative:

On the third infusion the Ha Giang version really levels off to a very nice balance.  It's subtle, but there are interesting layers to the experience, and the aspects integrate well together.  I can see why I just didn't have luck putting a description into words; "floral, cedar, warm mineral" kind of catches it, in a sense, but at the same time completely misses it.  That warmth does extend a bit towards coming across as cocoa, and the sweetness does extend towards coming across as dried fruit.  It's the overall effect and balance that really works, but discussing mouth-feel and aftertaste is going to run into a parallel limitation.  It's quite pleasant but hard to describe why, in what ways.

My perspective, standard review form, and content scope have changed some since then.

I don't have more to say about the specific origin of this Thai version either.  Alex Phanganovich passed it on, and contacting him might work to check on if he has more, or even just to figure out what this is.  If it's from one of the main producers there could be another place to find it, but if he is trying to sell some I don't really want to oppose that by flagging a different source.  One of the better known Wawee producers uses that origin area name as their company name, but there are plenty of others, and the younger Thai sheng version he shared was from material from that area that was processed elsewhere.  Oddly in looking up that link that post identifies a second name for him; Alexey Zykov.

meeting Alex in 2020; Thailand had a nice long pandemic break in that year

I thought both teas were exceptional; surely that comes across in the post content.  Either would be great to have more of to check on further transition potential.  It's funny how for some more "factory style" oriented sheng even after 15 years it's normal to discuss how approachable they are, and how much further they should go to become more ideal, and this experience was the opposite.  They are "there" now, they probably will just keep changing in interesting ways, especially the Wawee / Thai version.

they grow up so fast

cuddling with cats has been a priority this break visit, before they go back to Hawaii for school