Comparing Liu Bao, one a 2013 version from Liquid Proust

2017 comparison version left, Liquid Proust 2013 sample right

I only have one more sample of tea I plan to review from that earlier Liquid Proust introductory set after this one (an LBZ sample; that could be interesting).  I've ran through the background before on that but I'll include a short version here.

That set / group buy was really designed to introduce people to sheng who aren't familiar with it.  So not intended for me, basically.  I was taking part in the role of a journalist, to help get the word out, and of course I was curious to try the teas.  I've since ordered and received a "Sheng Olympiad" version of a set, which I'll get to next (with background on what that is here).  It didn't sell out right away, that group buy, but I put in an order for it immediately when I saw a notice given how this other set worked out.

Andrew does all these group-buy or introductory sets more in the role of a tea evangelist than as a vendor making a profit.  They're funded by the limited profits from his other sales, per my understanding, and on the whole he's only roughly coming out even.  You have to admire that degree of dedication and idealism, or at least I certainly do.

The point for including Liu Bao along with that is obvious enough; it's not sheng but it fills in another fascinating and closely related look into the world of tea, bridged over from sheng into hei cha scope (so a closer relative to shu or ripe pu'er). 

Given that this is essentially a free sample--I had to talk him up in price to be sure to cover what the shipping would run--all of these teas have been good, and type-typical enough to serve the role, definitely within the range of different conventional styles.  Most were good aside from that concern; just plain good tea. 

"Good" means different things, and the sense I'm using it here relates to being a decent example of a style of tea that shows what that type is about.  I don't mean it as a reference to them being above-average examples that would seem a good value at a higher than average price point; what an experienced pu'er drinker would seek out after developing preferences.  Related to that more specific scale of expectations they're not above average.  Some additional context might help here.

When people ask how others are able to drink sheng when all they try is awful that seems to be a reference to two different causes.  One is that they're not adjusted to the range; even light or moderate bitterness can be hard to appreciate at first, just as people don't always love coffee or beer at first, but later they can come to like it.  The other factor is that below average quality sheng pu'er can be very hard to appreciate or like.  Some aspects really do taste like kerosene, cardboard, or mushrooms, or some are musty from improper storage.  The teas in this set haven't suffered from those degrees of flaws, although unfamiliar taste range can come up with sheng.

A search function post list references other related tea reviews from that sample set.  We'll see where this one stands here.

I'm comparison reviewing it along with a Liu Bao version I've had around for awhile for a few reasons, but mainly because comparisons are what I'm into, and I had a related version I'm familiar with on hand.  Liu Bao character is clear from memory but tasting a second version along with it highlights minor differences and underlying attributes.

Review

Liquid Proust version right; leaf color difference is evident already

2017; a version from a friend in Kuala Lumpur:  this tastes like Liu Bao (or Luk Bok, per the Cantonese name, as my friend refers to it).  It's mineral intensive; it tastes a lot like a slate chalkboard smells.  That actually works; it's smooth and sweet, with decent balance for including so much of one flavor range.  From there one might identify different types of earthiness, like peat, or autumn forest floor, or aged tree bark, or maybe even a touch of charcoal.  It's a lot cleaner in effect than that would sound, and will probably come across even cleaner after a couple of rounds.  I don't expect this will transition a lot but the effect is pleasant for being on the simple side, and earthy in that one way.

I might add that I received and first reviewed this tea in October of 2017, so I'm assuming it may be from 2017, but that's not really a given.  It could easily be a 2016 version, or maybe even earlier.  It was from this KL shop, I think, and the original packaging probably made that clear.  The processing step takes considerable time, per my understanding, and Liu Bao probably isn't necessarily made from spring harvest tea, or maybe it typically isn't, so that timeline may mean this really has to be a 2016 version.  I don't know, and it's not really the point here, mapping out aging-related character difference.  That would only work if the teas were very similar in starting point, and the opposite seems true anyway, which I get around to saying more about along with the second infusion notes.


2013, the Liquid Proust sample:  this is completely different; interesting.  That other range is there, slate with some other earthy mineral, but this version also includes something like floral range, but an earthy version, that sweet character that old furniture can take on.  It's paired with an odd aspect that's not exactly mustiness but is along that line.  There seems a good chance this was stored in a relatively humid environment, based only on that as a factor.  But then it also seems a bit light in character; we'll see.

Aging seems to transition sheng pu'er even more because the starting point is different; it's easy to notice bright floral notes and intense bitterness and astringency shifting to other mellower, deeper toned range.  Liu Bao changes with age and it also mellows, but in a sense it starts out kind of mellow anyway.  I've not experienced the same type of relatively "off" fermentation effect shou pu'er can have, but I suppose that is still possible; the sample count of Liu Bao versions I've tried have been limited.  I've experienced it musty from being stored in too humid an environment and this isn't like that.  One other version took about a year to air out related to that.

This second tea is much better related to being more complex.  Since some of the aspect range isn't completely positive it's not clearly better as an overall experience this round, but I expect its flavor will "clean up" over the first few infusions.  This still seems characteristic of Liu Bao to me but it's unlike any I've tried so far.

Second infusion

again LP version right, comparison sample left (same in all photos)

2017 (comparison):  the flavors did clean up in this but there wasn't much shift to occur; they weren't really musty or muddled in any way initially.  This tea will just be what it is; earthy in a dark mineral tone intensive way.  It's nice though.  I'd expect that given another 5 years of so of age it would develop a mellow smoothness that it doesn't have now, although it's not edgy or difficult to relate to in any way.  It doesn't need age to shed any "off" pre-fermentation flavors.  It's a nice tea for this baseline comparison, to establish what that other style of version is like for direct comparison.

My friend offered it as a nice version of a basic daily drinking tea, and it works as that.  I find it very pleasant, and complex enough that it's not an overly simple experience, although it is a bit basic in character.  It would be great with foods of different types, a good compliment, which is usually how I drink tea.


2013 (LP):  this did transition more, although I expect that the next round will finish more of a move off that one odd set of initial flavors.  The earthy range (slate, dark mineral, touch of peat) and that floral / aromatic / sweet aged furniture range has been joined by a acetone-like aspect, a bit like a perfume base.  That somewhat floral aspect changed in character too, which I'll describe more next round, after a bit more transition, since it's still in the early stages of evolving.  That's all a good thing as transition direction goes.  It's a little cleaner and more positive in overall effect than it had been, still showing a nice complexity, a good range of aspects.

I hadn't mentioned that this older tea version is less fermented.  The aspects experienced would probably tell that story to someone familiar with this type but it seems obvious in the leaf color alone.  It's working backwards for me in this case, related to how tasting usually goes, with those aspects tying back to a known cause (apparent from the leaf color), not only indicating one.

It's interesting to consider that this second tea might have more aging potential going forward, even for being older.  The 2017 version represents aspects already transitioned by a pre-fermentation step that seems to have been carried further, which would be a positive or negative difference depending on how one takes the final effect.

All that works really well related to trying out how Liu Bao can vary.

Third infusion

2017:  this tea is nicer, cleaner and brighter.  The earthiness cleans up showing through a mild floral range, not exactly light in character but light in relation to the depth and intensity of the rest.  I think a lot of people might taste this tea and think I'm crazy to interpret that range as floral, since it still tastes a good bit like licking a slate chalkboard must, but there's a bright, sweet, complex higher note there to pick up too.

The friend who passed this on mentioned a typical range of flavors and effect description for Liu Bao / Luk Bok, which I'd have to cite to draw on much given my memory, but one part was how the charred sweetness can seem comparable to that found in Chinese roast pork (char sui, I think it is).  Thais like that dish too, so it's familiar, and I agree with him about that interpretation.


2013:  lots of transition in this round, and not all what I expected.  A tree-fungus aspect joined in, the flavor that ties directly to the smell of those large white crescent shaped versions.  So it's not really "cleaner" now, as I expected, more just different.  It still has good complexity, with floral tone still mixed in with the rest.  There is an awful lot going on in the experience, in every infusion version, and also tied to changes.  I don't like it more this round though.  It's still pleasant but not exactly improved by that shift. 

Fourth infusion

2017:  I could swear that the "char" effect has picked up a little in this round.  Really this tea isn't about going through a dramatic transition though; it's not far off where it had been in earlier rounds.


2013:  sweetness and what I'm interpreting as a perfume-like floral tone is more pronounced, with that tree-fungus range dropping back.  At a guess even slight shifts in brewed strength would shift how the aspects seem to balance with each other, so some of what I'm interpreting as transitions may just be that.

The feel seems to have a nice creaminess to it; it reminds me of how Guiness Stout feels, and some of that earthiness in that beer type matches too.  The rest of the range is quite different; it's earthier (and like fermented tea instead of dark beer), with sweetness that's perfume-like, and not so far off aged antique furniture range, something different.  With that degree of overall complexity to sort through I'm not going to get anywhere related to isolating which flower the floral range relates to, since I'm not great at that when tea flavors are a lot simpler.

Fifth infusion

2017:  I went really light on the next round, just a few-second infusion, to see how that shifted things.  This tea version is about the same, just lighter.  It works well this way but maybe best just slightly stronger, better at somewhere between a 5 and 10 second infusion, and still ok just beyond that.

2013:  this version works well lighter; the mushroom / fungus integrates better.  I'll try around 10 seconds next round and that will tell all of the story except later round transitions, which I'll skip taking notes on.  Both these teas would go a little long, I'd expect, maybe around 10 rounds.

Sixth infusion

2017:  this version is the best it has been; it's nice when transitions keep a tea improving like that.  It's not so different than before though, more that the floral / perfume like range is balancing better now, standing out a little more.  Char has dropped back but the rest of the dark mineral range is still a clean-flavored base context for both of those.  It's worth pointing out that this tea might be completely different and just as good brewed using Western or "grandpa style" approaches (longer, lower proportion timed infusions, or just leaving it in with the hot water to brew for quite awhile).

2013:  this has improved too; the fungus note drops back, into a better balance with all the rest (which I won't keep repeating as a list).  People might either love or hate this tea depending on how they relate to that one aspect, more so than the rest, or how it balances.  I've been through a lot with tea types and character range, never mind strange foreign foods, so it's fine for me.  I suppose the fungus component has transitioned, off that intense and unusual tree-fungus character more to a milder and sweeter wood-ear mushroom version.  The texture is a little odd for those but the taste is nice enough.

Conclusions

Six relatively fast infusions isn't the end for teas like this; they both had a ways to go, and I could've mapped out later round transitions.  But I did stop taking notes there, and of course I'm not going to describe slight variations based on memory later.  I'm posting this a good bit later, as things turned out; I took a week off work to use up remaining vacation, and had holiday days off for New Years, so I'm still converting tasting notes from then to posts.  I don't have much to add about this experience.

I can say this, that the other Liu Bao I've tried all seemed a bit simple in character related to this Liquid Proust version.  Some with more age on them had an interesting smoothness and depth but that version seemed a good bit more complex than they had tended to be (per memory, which is not completely reliable in my own case).  It seemed like a relatively more limited application of a pre-fermentation stage might've related to that, that allowing that process to run a bit further would've resulted in a more typical slate / earthy / peat / slight char character.  Then the tea would probably be more like the other comparison version.

Both teas were nice, both pleasant to experience, with the differences between the two also very interesting.

Tea exchange, and exploring Liu Bao through a Malaysian friend

I tend to talk to random people online, often about tea, or sometimes other subjects.  One online contact--or friend; let's just go with that--is Malaysian, a very well-spoken individual who also loves tea.  He's the one that offered those well-developed thoughts on "gan," related to exploring hui gan in a post.


We will exchange teas.  The format he insisted on is that he gives me some tea as a gift, and I can return the favor with a second gift if I choose to.  Or that's per my own understanding, at least; I'm still sorting out the part about evening up the balance and sending some tea to him.  It's nice when online social interactions help restore your faith in humanity, not that I'm in a crisis related to that.  I'm an optimist, so I can't ever completely lose that faith, especially since I also retain it for the benefit of my children, but sometimes things can seem negative, related to all the bad news and killing.

Death has been a main theme this year; almost always a bad subject to be on.  As I write this initial draft it's the funeral day of the former Thai King, as beloved a human being as ever lived.  He died a year ago, so this ends a long mourning period, but if someone means a great deal to you the loss is never completely resolved, you just get on with accepting it.  Of course there was a public shooting in the US recently, but I won't get into all that.  We lost a cat this year too, to me a death in the family, not just any cat but the most personable cat I've ever met, who was very close to my daughter.  But the comments sections of most internet posts is really more what I was talking about related to negativity.




This really has to circle back to tea.  He sent a lot of Liu Bao (more than a pound of it, it seems), and also a sheng pu'er cake.  It's too much, but it will be nice to be able to drink a lot of that tea, and to be able to share some.  Two other tea exchanges are currently in the works, and with a lot of that tea parting with even 50 gram "samples" wouldn't change the overall amount.



He mentioned a source shop for the Liu Bao, and even though it probably wouldn't be helpful to anyone outside of Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) I'll mention one contact anyway, a Facebook page for the Kong Wooi Fong shop

Review

The tea smells nice, a bit earthy of course, but in a pleasant, complex, mineral intensive sense.  It doesn't have as much molasses sweetness as some shou tends to have but the scent is rich and clean.

After a rinse I went with a relatively longer infusion time than I expected to provide optimum results, to jump right into experiencing a strong version of the tea, versus a more typical easing in by way of an initial light infusion.  I guess that related as much as anything to curiosity.  Later I'll experiment with different water temperatures and brewing techniques.  My friend mentioned that he often uses "grandpa-style" brewing, as we now call one version in Western tea circles, leaving a relatively small amount of tea in water for an extended time to "brew out."

The tea is nice, interesting, and definitely complex.  It has a lot of the earthy mineral range I'd expected but there is a bit more of a certain kind of structure to this version that I didn't expect.  It's not as soft and limited across feel range as those other versions I've been trying.  One might initially think that's because this is younger, and those have had time to mellow, but two of the last versions I was drinking were from 2014 and 2015, not aged for a long time.  It will be hard to describe what that part of the feel is like, and the related taste.  It's sticking with mineral range not far off slate, as those did, so in essence tasting like a blackboard smells (chalkboard, if one would rather).  Of course that's only going to work as a partial description, and it's hard to assign a mouth-feel to a blackboard.

I expect that the tea would be better brewed a good bit lighter, and that it will transition to soften a little across another infusion or two, but it's still very nice as it is.  Someone would have to like an earthy range of tea to appreciate it, of course.  Beyond slate peat also comes to mind as a taste description.  I'll expand on that more as I keep trying it, but I'll also check in with his own description of the general range:


In many aspects, almost indistinguishable with Pou Lei, but distinct and different at so many levels...  The tea tasted like decaying dry wood or tree branches as its elementary characteristic, with layers. At certain times, it is like the smell of tree bark. On numerous occasions, it tasted like the oh-so familiar of biting the '叉燒' or 'Char Siu', thus the similarity with Pou Lei. However, this tea, it is the additional smell almost associated with the smoke emanating from the burning of the dry leaves and old tree.

Luk Bou also evoked the feeling of one surrounded by furniture made of '酸枝木' or 'Shuin Ji Muk'. Sometimes, it is like walking into a room with old books lining the shelves, not exactly moldy but dry with warmth and inviting, not the secondhand bookstores with a mixture of acerbic feel and unforgiving.

There is this intrinsic 'old-time' quality, an almost antiquated attribute about Luk Bou, not found in Pou Lei. These are the layers of characters, making Luk Bou lavish in its character, but a constant not 'in-your-face' taste that neither scream for one's attention nor being intrusive, when drinking this tea, of which I believe the uniqueness of Luk Bou. Also, the fact that I am partial to Luk Bou.


That probably works as a full review, really, but I'll keep going anyway.  He's using the Cantonese term for Liu Bao instead, Luk Bok, if I've got that right.  I didn't mention that he's at the opposite extreme related to English language use than I'm accustomed to living in a foreign country, a couple of levels above simply being fluent, but then quoting him in that hui gan related post had already conveyed that.

brewing in a gaiwan; not as black as I expected

The next infusion, a shorter one, is softer.  The first one wasn't musty or "off" in aspect range but this one is a bit cleaner (possibly due to just being brewed lighter).  It's funny how old books and furniture really can describe a clean, positive taste, and I'm even relating to the barbecued pork description (the char sui).

Maybe more than the burning of dry leaves I'm reminded of the smell of a pile of autumn leaves, a very familiar smell from my childhood, being from a very wooded area in Pennsylvania, a name which itself means "Penn's woods."  We would pile up those leaves and jump in them, or stuff clothing with them to make a type of scarecrow, for no real purpose other than to play.  Those were simpler times.  There is really a range of scents that autumn leaves can express, related to different trees dropping them, to moisture level, and the scent varying for being in the deep woods or in an open yard, but I don't intend to try and narrow that down related to this tea.

autumn leaves in Pennsylvania (photo credit)

The flavor transitions a little the next round but it's not that different.  That feel aspect I mentioned falls into a really nice balance, fitting in well with the rest of the effect.  It was a little strong initially to integrate well, probably as much from going a bit far with infusion strength as from transition.  The aftertaste is a different aspect but the two seem to pair together, to overlap, so that you are tasting the tea and feeling it after swallowing it, in equal measure.  It's not the same as the experience that other local friend described as being "hui gan" in that Yiwu sheng tasting, when plain water tasted after drinking that one tea seemed very sweet, but I tried the same practice of drinking water after, to see how the effect changed that experience.  The water didn't have the same intense taste as it had then but the effect definitely continued and became a part of tasting that water too.


Those same aspects shift a bit in relative balance across other infusions but the tea doesn't really change.  Some teas do transition a lot across infusions and some don't.  For some that do it's about the best aspects fading out in the early rounds, but in some cases teas just express an interesting range of character that keeps changing.  This just softens, and slightly sharper mineral tones give way to warmer earthy range.  I suppose in a sense it comes across more like coffee, after the first 7 or 8 infusions (prepared Gongfu style).  It seems like one wouldn't miss that much for preparing it Western or "grandpa" style, and sometimes that can work out in positive ways that you don't expect, it can somehow be even better, for stacking up more of the aspects range in one go.  I'll check on that.

brewed leaves; not entirely blackened by fermentation and age transition

It goes without saying that this tea experience wouldn't be for everyone.  I like it, and I think a lot of people could relate to it, especially in a version like this one.  It is probably the best version I've tried yet, or at least on par with the other favorite of the set of three I've tried.  It's possible I like it better because I'm more used to the type, since I've been drinking it, and because the tea means more to me as a gift, so I'm biased in judgement.


I'll have to check the age on this tea, to see if that's a factor.  It didn't seem as black in color as the others, or as fermented, related to that and overall effect.  It could be younger, or both factors could work together, I guess, and it could have been fermented less.  I don't get the impression this is even supposed to be "great Liu Bao," if that's even how that tends to work, just a nice version that's typical of the type.  I've already tried the sheng too, and like that as well, even though it also seems to be a pleasant version of a modest "everyday drinker" type of tea.  But all of that is another story.

Liu Bao from Double Dogs tea shop (Bangkok Chinatown)

Double Dogs shop Liu Bao, 2015 version (5105)

2014 version (no additional description)

I'll have more to say separately about an outing to the local Chinatown, but one short stop was at the Double Dogs Tea Room there.  For whatever reason it's the only tea cafe in this local Chinatown, as far as I'm aware, and as far as Google and other references seem know of.  It's a nice place; a bit casual and plain, but per my limited exposure there the teas are fine, good versions that are typical for the types they're described as.  And the pricing is reasonable, around 250 baht per a tiny pot, as I recall, so not that much more than a Starbucks coffee price for a completely different type of experience. 

Since we'd been drinking tea for over an hour at my favorite local shop there, Jip Eu, more a tea take-away place, we mostly just stopped by to grab a tea, which worked out to be a Liu Bao.

street tea; poor storage but low price ($25/kilo; I should have bought some)

I did a survey of some hei cha lately, initiated by a Malaysian online friend being into Liu Bao (which they call Luk Bok instead, the Cantonese name, I think).  The version I tried from Yunnan Sourcing was a bit musty (reviewed here).  It will probably be good after airing out for another half year or so but that did throw off the full round of trying some hei cha types.  I tried a nice Liu Bao from Thailand awhile back but it's not the same; even if it was completely type-typical and a good version since it is from a different country than the original I'd need more exposure to recognize that.  So now I can check.

They had a 2015 version that per the staff they only sell by half kilogram (labeled with a product number, 5015).  As I recall it sold for 650 per 100 grams (if they had sold it that way, so 3200+ per half kilogram, or around $95).  That does turn out to be retail for the tea (with more on what it is following).  For Liu Bao it could be on the high side compared to more modest versions, but then tea sold out of physical shops generally costs a little more than that bought online, which to me is fair since their costs are higher, and having a person talk about tea and show you it can add more value.  Perhaps more importantly, inexpensive Liu Bao can taste awful, so a bargain version still may not be a good value.

The other tea is a 2014 version (not labeled in any way I kept track of; that's what the written label says).  They did sell that tea in parts, per lesser quantity, and it cost half as much.  I'm sure it is a lower quality version then, which tasting will fill in details about.  The staff wrote a 2015 date on the package but I'm sure it was labeled 2014 on the container, which really doesn't make all that much difference either way.

What those teas are

My impression is that these might just be commercial teas, so I'll try and sort out what they are through research.  This AliExpress reference lists a 500 gram commercial Liu Bao as 5105, with their description:


500g Loose China Tea GuangXi Liu Bao Tea Dark Tea China Tea Wuzhou LiuBaoCha 5105 with Jinhua

Not much of that rings a bell.  They're selling it for $85, for what that's worth.  An Ebay vendor seems to sell the same product, with the details a little clearer, in this case listing a 50 gram sample for $7.99 (so again half a kilo for $79.90, $5 less).  These price mentions aren't so much to determine if I paid online-vendor market price, more to set a range, and help indicate that they really are the same thing.  If the same tea cost $95 in a shop, $10-15 more, by the time you factor in shipping it's about the same.


There's no need to say lots about it but it's common knowledge that you may not get the tea you actually try to buy through Ebay, Amazon, or Taobao purchasing (or in a physical shop, for that matter, but I don't think that concern applies at this shop).  It's only a good deal if you actually buy the tea you think you are buying, and not something else that really should cost a lot less.


They list a description on that last Ebay page, which is interesting, if not really completely clear:

                                                                                

Name:	Liu Bao Cha 5105
Brand:	China Tea
Product Packing Year:	2013
Tea Production Year:	2013
Packing:	Loose
Weight:	Approx. 500g per piece
Category:	Liu Bao Tea - Dark Tea
Origin:	CangWu, GuangXi, China
Storage Time:	Taste improves with age

Liu Bao tea is dark tea, specialty tea of Guangxi. Quality characteristics of Liu Bao tea:

  Shape: coarse and fat
  Color: brownish auburn bloom
  Soup color: red bright, like amber
  Aroma: stale and mellow, fragrant with betel nut
  Taste: mellow and thick, sweet after taste
  Tea leafs: brownish auburn and evenly
  
Liu Bao tea produced in Liubao of Cangwu, Guangxi. Tea area is local in the mountain or canyon, vertical and horizontal streams, beautiful, sunshine short, year-round misty, fertile soil, very suitable for tea growing.

Liu Bao tea leaf picking a bud and two, the beginning of the system by sharing green, low-temperature fixing, rolling, and steep heap, dry made. Replication process, including screening shaping, pick stems pick films, fight heap, cold fermentation, drying, steaming on, step baskets, and cool set aging.

Whatever automatic translation they were using was breaking down towards the end, not doing processing steps justice, but the rest of that is clear enough.  It's not made from older leaves, per that description, or with a lot of stems, and of course it's a pre-fermented hei cha, not all that different than a shou pu'er.  Per my understanding--per some hearsay--shou processing was derived mostly from Liu Bao.  I'd need to try betel nut to really relate to that part.  And I was probably just in the right place for that, too, in that Chinatown.


It's odd that I didn't snap a picture of a label for the other tea, and the sample didn't say what it was, aside from the year (2014).  In a sense it doesn't matter; it's some version of Liu Bao.  It seems quite possible it's a common type, not impossible to look up, but this was never intended as that sort of reference post, a definitive review of these teas, more just a further impression of the type.

I also didn't snap a single shot of Double Dogs, due to the context of us rushing in and out of there, with the place just a little busy right then.  Here are a couple from a visit and post two years ago:

It didn't seem to have changed.  I kind of like that basic vibe, really, I'm just not exactly the tea cafe type, and I don't get down to Chinatown as much as I'd like.  And when I do I'm grabbing some tea and moving on, maybe pausing to drink some tiny cups over at the Jip Eu shop, but not really even hanging out long there.


Here's a shot of that friend I went to visit with.  He has a cool look (waiting on his girlfriend to pray, in this shot, maybe feeling just a little impatient right then).  I do want to say more about the Chinatown outing, but this is going long as it is just talking about Liu Bao, so next time I will.

Review:

The 2014 version is nice enough.  I'll just go by year for this writing, with the "5105" version from the other year, the 2015 tea, per my understanding.  I tasted the rinse and threw it out, but I won't start on that, and a fast rinse really should be discarded for fermented tea types. 

On the first infusion it tastes a good bit like an old blackboard smells, so mineral-like in the range of slate.  There is a hint of a charcoal element to it, and a trace of mustiness, but in general the flavor is clean and sweet (as a tea that tastes mostly like slate goes).  It's not really complex in the sense of some other tea types, but it does have a richness to it.  The flavor complexity is fine, there just isn't that much going on beyond those elements, nothing towards fruit or spice or other range, at least not yet.

2015 left (5015), 2014 right.  Some dark teas.

The 2015 version is a good bit better tea.  It's sweeter, and more complex, with a good bit more going on.  It also tastes a little like slate, with hints of charcoal behind that, but without much at all for mustiness, and some other sweet and complex range folding in.  It strikes your palate as one element that's standing out but after focusing on it that's really a range of different flavors.  I would guess it does resemble just one type of thing that I'm not familiar with (betel nut?); sorry that's not more helpful. 

It comes across a little like a sweet, warm, darker wood, with a bit of that mildly fruity and sweet element in some chewing tobacco.  That's better than it sounds; chewing tobacco can smell great, the taste and overall experience just tends to let you down.  I don't mean the ground-up snuff version (like Skoal), the other loose leaf type instead (like Levi Garret, or Red Man).  Those products are sweet and distinctive, which makes me wonder what else is even in them.  Per this reference those are fermented and sweetened, some with a high sugar content, and some sweetened with licorice.  I looked this up after the actual tasting but maybe that tea did taste a little like licorice.

It's the type of flavor range that has enough going on that it really could be a few different aspects, but they're integrated together.  It's also unusual enough that I'd expect lots of people to describe it in completely different sets.  Going back to the first lower cost version (the 2014) and trying the same infusion the flavor range makes more sense after trying the other, as if I see how it fits together better.  I think it might also clean up a little over an infusion or two.

Second infusion

The 2014 version did transition a little.  The slate-mineral effect is still most pronounced, with the same touch of charcoal char behind that, but the mustiness did ease up.  It gains some complexity too, in a really earthy range, I guess along the lines of peat.  Peat always sounds a bit more negative than I mean it; "spring forest floor" isn't far off that.  With that in mind it reminds me of that rich vegetal scent of moss too, which is also better than it sounds, to me.  That might even be a bit like a dried wild mushroom, close enough to shitake.  It comes across as cleaner than it would sound.  This tea wouldn't be for everyone but it's nice, to me, just in a different kind of range.

The 2015 version cleans up a bit too, with that nice earthy-range aspect moving a little towards spice, similar to root beer.  The char more or less drops out, at least most of it, and there wasn't much mustiness to contend with before anyway.

I tend to let feel and aftertaste range aspects drop out when I'm doing comparison posts, focusing on flavor instead, but I'll say a little about that.  This better version is full and rich, just in a different sense than for other tea types.  It's toward how some teas come across as oily in feel; maybe actually oily or maybe not.  The aftertaste doesn't linger to the extent as for nicer sheng pu'er and high mountain oolong but it doesn't vanish immediately after tasting either.  Again even this tea--even the better version--wouldn't be for everyone, but it's that little bit easier to relate to than the other, with more positive aspects range making it approachable.

2015 left, 2014 right.  Some dark broken up leaf teas.

Third infusion

Both teas have shifted just a little further in those directions but essentially aren't changing much, so I'll wrap this up.  The teas are nice.  They're not all that far from shou pu'er, really.  I suppose the range is a bit different, and distinctive, but also with plenty of overlap.  I could imagine drinking a half kilogram of that better version, and at a price range of 640 or so baht per 100 grams ($18) it seems fine for the tea type, a little more than I would have expected, but then better versions of teas are priced higher for a good reason.  I actually did buy 100 grams of the lower priced tea, which cost 320 (or so) baht per that quantity, around $9.   They just gave me the sample of the other, which is much appreciated, and added a lot to this review.  It would be nicer to get the shop to agree to sell 100 grams of both versions, and then to take up Liu Bao as a daily drinker if it really does ring a bell.

Per that Malaysian friend people there do drink this as a main tea type, as the one type of tea they always drink.  I keep running across references to people drinking basic versions of shou in Chinese restaurants, and some of that really could be Liu Bao (or Luk Bok, the other name).


There was a discussion about Liu Bao in a Steepster thread, with the post claiming what they tried tasted like dirt.  I can relate to that.  The Yunnan Sourcing version I reviewed tastes like a musty root cellar, and this more modest version tastes like slate.  Dirt sounds worse, but those are all in an earthier range.  This reference of a higher end supplier of teas was mentioned in that thread, Essence of Tea, a vendor I've been inclined to not even try out since almost all the teas on their site sell for a dollar a gram.  Some teas are definitely worth that, of course, some tea quality levels keep on extending to higher levels, it's just outside my tea budget.  The Liu Bao section is more reasonable, of course, and interesting to review related to the range it spans.


Per the standard take this type of tea does improve with age (with lots of those EOT versions from the 90s; probably a good source for checking on that).  It would work to set aside most of a half a kilogram of it and drink only a part instead, to keep coming back to it over a period of years.  That Malaysian friend (the one that gave input about "gan / kam," by the way), buys it by kilogram and just keeps sticking with that type, drinking it with food, or as a breakfast tea.

In relation to how pu'er is aged it wouldn't even need to be carefully sealed; some limited degree of air contact would be fine.  I don't know that it's going to continue to ferment though.  My understanding is that shou really doesn't, but per the typical take both would mellow further, clean up, and become more complex with more age.

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