Fortnum and Mason Rose Pouchong

 

I'm reviewing a rose pouchong tea from Fortnum and Mason.  There are a couple of interesting layers to this experience, beyond the tea, since pouchong is an interesting type reference, and this was given to me by a Thai monk.  

I can explain how that second part works.  I've mentioned giving monks tea a lot here, and it usually goes that way, that you would give a monk tea, not the other way around.  But it makes sense.

How can a monk give away tea?

I've mentioned giving monks tea fairly frequently, a few times in the past 2 or 3 months.  If people end up giving them a lot of any one thing, like that, it could seem inappropriate for them to stockpile tea, even though for a tea enthusiast that's a best case scenario.  Giving some away to visitors is appropriate, and keeping a moderate supply.  

People also end up giving monks things they're not supposed to have, like a fruit basket.  There's no rule against keeping tea around, but monks can't store food, because they are required to go out on alms rounds daily and live off that food input, and not keep "leftovers."  It's not the worst thing to give them fruit, not a violation of a norm, because they can eat some that day, and pass it on to another visitor, or temple staff.  

There aren't a lot of staff at a temple, like in a billionaire's house complex, but depending on the temple context they may need extra security, office workers, cleaners, etc.  We just had a memorial service event at Wat Pho, a main Thai Bangkok temple, that functions as both a tourism destination and a functional temple, for memorials, funerals (not many; dedicated temples tend to specialize in that), and marriages.  I was married there, and I ordained there, 19 years or so ago.  

That temple is typically the #1 Bangkok tourism destination on Trip Advisor; it's not just a tourism attraction, it's a main one, in a city that draws almost as many visitors as anywhere else in the world.  More might go to Paris, but that's about it.

I recently gave that monk two kinds of tea, after passing on some other tea a month or two prior, and it was probably adding up, what different people had offered.  Hopefully he didn't give it to me to balance the scales, in some way, as friends would return a favor, because I'm not at all concerned about that, and I have a lot of tea around.  Monks can't buy things, so I give tea to a few that I know, because they can't eat anything after noon, and it would be nice to have a beverage option then.  It's just that.

What is pouchong?

Pouchong is baozhong, a type of lightly oxidized oolong from Taiwan.  I had forgotten that, that it's the old name for that type.  This seems nothing like Bao Zhong, instead like a mild black tea.  That's fine though; when oolong types are relatively more oxidized the line blurs, since black teas can also be relatively less oxidized (within a narrow range).  Oddly they're calling it black tea, on the label, at the same time they reference a name for a type of oolong, which might be explained in the following additional background.

This one tastes like a mild and flavorful black tea, in terms of flavor profile.  That's positive.  I'm writing this after taking notes; it's interesting to consider if a bias towards thinking that it's black tea changed anything.  The dried leaves are dark, and the wetted leaves are brown; it's as oxidized as black tea, regardless of what they want to call it, or which processing steps led to that.  So it's really more of a naming and type anomaly; this is functionally black tea.

They could have been referencing an older use of the named type.  This is an excerpt from Tea, It's History and Mystery, by Joseph Walsh, from 1892:

That was in the "souchong" black tea book section; it had been black tea back then, or at least so it seems from this reference.  This is probably what they are referencing, a traditional type name, not the older name variation for a type of Taiwanese oolong.

Review:

First infusion:  it might work better to use a very small amount, 2 or 3 grams, and then brew it for 5 minutes, more or less as the tin label recommended.  I used 4 or 5 grams, and it will brew 2 or 3 times using this kind of hybrid Western approach.  It's "designed" for infusion all at one time, so that might not be ideal; we'll see how it goes.

The flavor is a little light, but it's fine, the range works.  Of course it tastes like flowers and black tea.  Like rose, I guess?  It literally is rose.  The quality of the black tea is pretty good, better than I would have expected.  It's not as if everything that finds its way into a tin is bad, that's just a generality that probably applies more often than it doesn't.  The more flavored a tea is the less the tea input quality would matter, so it might tend to be worse.  Earl Grey versions usually use some pretty so-so black tea as a base.

It's hard to identify much beyond general black tea range and rose.  It's a warm toned black tea, as those tend to be, but it lacks the malty edge of Assam.  It might taste a little like unsmoked Lapsang Souchong.  I still don't know what this is; it might even be that.  Or maybe Keemun / Qimen.  Let's check with Google how that should be:

Qimen black tea, commonly known as Keemun, is a famous Chinese black tea originating from Qimen County in Anhui Province. First produced in 1875, it is prized for its gentle, low-astringent taste with distinct notes of unsweetened cocoa, dried fruit, and a subtle, aromatic smokiness.

Maybe this does include cacao and dried fruit; it's hard to tell, with this much floral input.  That's a good guess.  The range of whatever it does include is positive, and it integrates well with the rest.  Tea quality is good; feel is decent, and aftertaste contributes depth, even though it's mostly floral (the rose).  

It's good tea, in a limited sense.  For a mass produced tin tea it's quite good, for specialty tea range presented as an exceptional version just kind of ordinary, or maybe not on a high level.  Complexity and intensity could be limited, which doesn't matter in this form, because the flower input is covering that.

Second infusion:  I let this go a bit over 5 minutes, to really extract the rest.  There is no astringency edge to work around, or any other unpleasant range, so it should be fine strong.  Or medium; the last should've probably been stronger for brewing about 5 grams for around 4 minutes.  

I didn't mention that this would work well with milk and sugar, but you would need to dial up intensity for that to make sense, and I'm already brewing what should be a really strong version.  It would be strange trying to brew 6 to 8 grams in a 300 ml infuser; at some level it might not fit in a basket.

Floral range really kicks this time.  It even picks up a bit of dry edge to the feel; it's pushed as far as it could be, without things going badly.  This is strong enough to stand up to milk and sugar, but it definitely doesn't need it.  Sweetness level is nice.  

It's cool how there is nothing actually sweet in this in terms of carbohydrate input, but it's sweet.  It lacks that artificial sweet range in stevia and diet drinks; this could really work for some people trying to control caloric intake.  A teaspoon or two of sugar isn't a lot of calories anyway (16 calories in 4 grams, a teaspoon), which makes it all the more odd that sodas contain so much (140 calories in a can of Coke; 8 teaspoons worth).

This is much better than I expected.  I've had pretty good floral blends before, and jasmine black tea is my personal favorite, so I guess it makes sense that I like this.

I'm still not unpacking a new flavor list.  It's not that far off jasmine black tea, but of course this is rose.  Maybe it includes cacao, or maybe that's not a great interpretation.  If there is dried fruit it's not so far off Chinese date, or that plus dried apricot.  The dry, warm, rich input that picked up could seem like malt, if you are looking for that, or autumn leaf might work better.

It might have worked better to brew 2/3rds as much for 6 or 7 minutes, maybe 3 grams or so, and that's it.  But as a specialty tea enthusiast I am biased towards experiencing some transition across rounds, even when it doesn't change anything, or isn't completely positive.

plenty of company for this tasting

Conclusions:

This is a great tea to have on hand for something easy to brew and drink when you are in a hurry, or don't feel like going through much effort.

So how much would this cost?  19 British pounds for 100 grams, or $26.  Is that a good value?  Not compared to what I've been buying at Chinatown locally; I just bought 100 grams of wild origin Chinese black tea for $15, a version that's slightly better.  But for this mass-produced range, selling on a Western market or webpage, it's probably normal, and ok.  

The one Vietnamese jasmine black tea I've tried versions of, from Hatvala, here, sells for $18.25 for 100 grams, and it's probably slightly better (relatively objectively, although preference always factors in).  But then they offer free worldwide shipping on $80 or over, so you'd be looking to build up an order to that amount, from anywhere but within Vietnam, where local post service is probably cheap.  

Fortnum and Mason, through their webpage sales outlet, don't ship to Thailand, so that's not even an option to buy direct from them.  I've never seen this in Bangkok, so it would probably come down to using an Amazon or Ebay outlet, which again might add significant shipping.  

I'd recommend buying the Hatvala tea over this anyway.  More oxidized / red oolong through them has been exceptional in the past, and trying a few other teas would be a great experience.  $80 sounds like a lot, but that could be months worth of tea.  That doesn't change that this was pretty good; I'm saying that you could probably get slightly better tea for less, using a different kind of source.

The difference between blogging in support of tea vendors and shilling

 

This subject just came up, related to an odd pretense, just recommending a vendor.  It was on Reddit, where someone took offense that I had kept recommending Tea Mania, a Swiss vendor who sells pu'er, Wuyi Yancha, Taiwanese oolong, and Japanese teas.  The problem?  It seemed biased, to them.

Never mind that case, the complaint; there was nothing to that.  But it's an interesting sub-theme, how a blogger, who aims to be objective, deals with having favorite vendor sources.  I can unpack that quite a bit.  

It seems best to do so in discussion of my favorite vendors, explaining what my bias is, and why I see myself as still objectively "reporting" tea impressions in their cases.  Maybe not all of that works; it's up to a reader to decide for themselves.  I'll cover the different related factors along with that form, vendor by vendor, starting with a few favorites.

Jip Eu tea shop in Bangkok:  the owners are like an extra uncle and aunt to me.  Of course I would try to help them, even if my experiences there hadn't been as positive, related to their teas, and the value they're sold at.  But the broad range of interesting versions and great values are the main point.  It's why I settled into visiting them more than everywhere else in Bangkok combined, related to buying tea.  I have mentioned other places, summarized here, I just don't go to many very often.

first meeting Huyen!  8 years ago.  she would be my favorite vendor, if she sold tea.

I've already covered the bias, that I like visiting with them.  Related to product diversity I've tried different teas almost every time I've visited them, a count that is in the dozens now.  Who knows how much I've not identified that is available there.  I found brand new--to me--aged sheng versions there in the last two years, that had long since been there, and I've been buying similar aged sheng from them for nearly a decade.  

They specialize in Wuyi Yancha, both good versions and very inexpensive blends, that typical better-than-it-should-be dirt cheap Shui Xian (which would be called Da Hong Pao in some places, but they just go with what it actually is).  Their tins of medium grade Dan Cong are good, and it's a great place to buy either good jasmine pearls (white tea) or inexpensive jasmine green tea.  There are gaps; black teas aren't well represented, and oddly they don't sell almost anything from Thailand.  And it's hard to shop there, harder for others than for me, since they won't just sit and try everything in the shop with you (with friends, sure, but it's not like that for walk-ins).  There is no product list.

I know what these teas are, and what the market values are, and they're all pretty good, related to quality and value issues.  Maybe value and quality are hit and miss, which gets back to the "hard to shop" theme.  I am usually describing the positive side, but I've expressed that it's hard to shop there many times in this blog.  They just ask what people want, instead of talking through the options.  I suppose that's fair, since it would be a long talk covering it all.

Wuyi Origin:  this is a very well-respected producer and direct online sales vendor of Wuyi Yancha, based in Wuyishan, China.  I've never met Cindy, one owner, but I consider her a friend.  That almost covers it; there's no need to justify how good their teas are, or where value stands with them, because searching Wuyi Origin in any online tea group would turn up a list of endorsements.  Their teas are pretty far up the scale, and lots of people are familiar with that.  

I suppose there would always be something slightly better, or a style that's a better match to some preferences, but I sometimes recommend against people starting with their teas because they're too good.  You could never go back and appreciate that Chinatown shop Shui Xian if you explored their teas at first.  

In this case I don't feel it's necessary to say a lot about potential bias in online writing, and I've not been writing about their teas for years anyway.  I moved on to drinking sheng pu'er, and mostly order Thai, Laos, and Vietnamese teas, to maximize value.  Chinese teas can be slightly better, and value relates to quality related to cost, so that's one half of the equation, but for people on a tight budget the second part really matters as much or more.  

I mention them here because it's an example of a personal bias, and I did need to consider and try to address that in a lot of earlier reviews.

Tea Mania:  the source of the trigger for this writing.  I do know and like the owner, and he has contributed teas for review a number of times, but to me it's really about their teas.  Even when my tea budget was limited--it has been, for awhile--at one point this vendor was the source for my main annual order, stocking up every year.  I probably should get back to that, but I've been on a SE Asian tea tangent for who knows how many years, maybe about 5.  Really for 15, since I started on that, but I mean in relation to it being most of what I buy.

a 2016 cake reviewed in 2018 (my photography and sheng background were a little rough)

What's so great about their teas?  One Yiwu cake line represents some of the best value out there for pu'er (Lucky Bee).  And they sell more gushu / higher cost versions, that are significantly better.  Those other tea type ranges are really solid (Taiwanese oolong, Wuyishan teas, and Japanese teas).  So quality level is as high as "curator" vendors often offer, with pricing more in a conventional small vendor range.

Unless I'm judging all of that wrong there isn't more to explain or to justify.  They sell really good tea for below market rate costs.  Not far below standard pricing, but at a good value (except for that Yiwu; that level of value is atypical).  

One more caveat:  a number of vendors have contributed teas that are better than I typically buy for evaluation and review, so I'm not basing my own judgment on a broad range of routine purchases at a high cost level.  I don't buy 50 to 80 cent per gram pu'er; I can't afford it.  I've placed three small tea orders in the last two months, which my wife might already freak out about, which represents about as much tea as I've bought over the last year and a half (for myself; I do routinely buy tea for gifts, which is something else).  All of that tea was a bit below moderate in cost; it was cheap.

So how do I know that I can judge "gushu," dollar per gram range sheng fairly?  Reviewing is always about working with whatever impression you have, based on whatever background.  I've tried lots of different kinds of teas, from different sources; it would have to do.

Trident Bookseller and Cafe:  this isn't the same kind of theme.  I know the one owner of this business online, and like him, and he has sent tea to try once.  I recommend them as a good curator source; they seek out the best of the best kind of range, and sell that at way below a normal price, for what those teas are.

But it is odd, recommending people buy tea through an online outlet hosted by a cafe.  It makes sense, because of what I've described.  In trying those teas, only one set, I couldn't have been more convinced that every version was the best I'd tried of those standard types (Longjing and such).  

I don't think there is the body of endorsement comments out there in groups confirming this; people who know know, and most others don't, and people tend to "gatekeep" good sources.  They're not really trying to blow up as a main vendor source anyway.  They already sell books, and coffee, and tea on-site, so the online outlet is for profit but also for playing a broader role as a source.

I'm not overly sensitive about my image as possessing an ideally reliable opinion, in case that's how this is coming across.  People can think that I am biased, and "out of pocket," as my son says; it's all the same to me.  People who know know.  I expect that not everyone's subjective preferences and value judgment would match mine; that would be normal.  In the loosest possible sense I suppose that I am a tea expert, but that's not at all how I represent myself.  I'm a tea enthusiast who tries different things, and also likes to write.  Every experienced tea enthusiast realizes that there are a lot of thinner spots in what they've experienced; it's just how that works.

Viet Sun:  I wanted to keep this mostly to vendors that I'm buying tea from, since that makes the most sense (even though Trident was an exception to that).  I've bought more tea from Viet Sun over the past few years than anyone else.  It might seem that I've went quiet on that, since really tightening my budget last year involved skipping that order.  I bought a little in Chinatown, and from one "local" Thai source, and that was it.  I think I'll skip mentioning Aphiwat here; he's as much a favorite source as any, but you can search that in this blog to find a half dozen related posts, tied mostly to Thai sheng.

Steve and another friend covered Vietnamese tea market status here

Viet Sun is a unique vendor.  For a time Hatvala was the only Western-facing, good quality, great value Vietnamese source.  Or maybe only the Western facing part is enough; it was where you could get tea from Vietnam, and it just happened to be good tea that was moderate in cost.  Viet Sun expanded that and shifted range, to much better Vietnamese sheng and black tea.  

I did just order some tea from them, checking out this year's versions, so I'll write plenty of posts expanding on that over the next six weeks or so.  There's a pattern where unheard of new range is inexpensive at first, and slightly inconsistent, and then as consistency and demand ramp up so does cost.  The days of Vietnamese teas being an amazing value could be winding down; the original production level pricing also increases, as awareness and demand expands, which is fair.

On that quality side, maybe this level of Vietnamese sheng didn't even exist a decade ago.  I tried a pretty good version nearly that far back, from a Hanoi shop, so it probably did, but there wasn't much, and it was almost impossible to find.  Now it's not.  

If I'm wrong about all of that then I'm wrong.  But I've tried about as much South East Asian sheng as anyone alive, so that would have to relate to a bias working out much differently than I expect, or my overall judgment being wonky.

Could it be?  Sure, why not?  Once or twice a year someone will confirm that their preferences match mine, and I've been a huge help to them, but that's not much validation or feedback given my posts are viewed many thousands of time per year.  My judgment must also conflict with some others.  

Those views are mostly by bots, probably, but my guess is that around 10,000 views per month might be people, or at least 5,000, and then an order of magnitude more are AI bots, at this point, more than 10 times that many.

This is not an airtight case for me being completely objective, is it?  I don't think it works that way, that any one person can strip out their own judgment from their experience of tea.  I think that people can get better and better at placing their perspective within the landscape of others', but there would be limits to that.  I'm not claiming that I'm exceptional at it.  My guess is that I'm as successful as people tend to be on average, who put in moderate effort, but for sure others with different strengths and more deliberate or dedicated approaches can do better.

I get the sense that even from a source that means a lot to me personally I can still judge a tea fairly, in the same way I would if bought at random, or sent by a vendor source for review.  Or maybe that's not quite right.  We tend to like what we expect to like; it just works out like that.  We can zoom in on positive aspects or flaws and limitations in experiences, without noticing doing so.  It's probably impossible to accurately score yourself in relation to this factor.

I'm going to mention one more factor related to my "policy" of reviewing teas, to help place my approach.  I review what I like, not what I dislike.  You would have to go back pretty far here to find a tea that I describe as unpleasant.  

I'll cite an example, where I would do that:  I reviewed tea fossils and resin, two forms of instant tea, awhile back, and I don't really like either.  That was here, in 2024.  Looking back one was from a friend, and one from Tea Mania, a sample contributed for review, and I pretty much said that I didn't care for it.  

Here's an excerpt from that review, starting with the Tea Mania cha gao (tea resin):

[about the cha gao]:  I can't say that I like it.  There are redeeming characteristics, but it's rough, harsh.  Of course very heavy mineral dominates it; one might expect that.  It tastes like drinking rainwater condensed down to a brown liquid after sitting out in a plant pot, reducing there.  A pine note isn't bad though, and it lacks a lot of the disagreeable character of cheap shou.  It's not a lot like peat, it doesn't include off earthy flavors, or fishiness, and so on.

I diluted it again, and it's slightly better, but it's still going to taste like that, so heavy on mineral tones.  It's not so close to the flavor range of shou pu'er, but of course it is closest to that.  I overbrewed some Fu brick tea recently and this also reminds me of that.

tea fossils:  it's better, but only in comparison with the other tea.  I wouldn't drink this.  I will drink these cups; I tend to not waste tea, but I mean there's no way I would purchase this, or repeat this trial to check if other versions are better.  Related to the experience being novel it is quite interesting though...

So that's it; I will only review a tea I don't like if the flaws are interesting enough to warrant it, if there is a story.  If a pu'er just misses for you, or a black tea is missing a dimension or two, then there's no story.  It's bad tea, per your subjective tastes.

On the other theme I pass on as objective an opinion as I happen to have in reviews.  I've always wondered how that's affected by expectations, but we don't really get to know that, about ourselves.  To a limited extent we can work around that using blind tasting, which I've mentioned recently, but that's kind of a different subject.

Ketlee 2020 Manipur (Indian) Spring Wild White Tea

 

Reviewing the last of a set of samples of interesting and novel Indian teas, provided by Susmit of Ketlee for review (many thanks!).  Earlier posts covered trying Indian sheng (a variation of Yunnan pu'er), Sikkim and Manipur origin Indian oolongs, with this a wild origin white.  We met Susmit in a meetup discussion described here, talking about changing Indian tea styles, and shifts in awareness and demand.  I'll add his description before posting this, and get right to the tasting part.

2020 Spring Wild White Tea (the Ketlee site listing)  ($7 per 25 grams)

Grown in the wilderness of Manipur, this tea from very old plants are mother nature's gift to us. It has been one of our most awaited teas yet, after the last years harvest sold out way earlier than expected!

The tea starts floral and fruity with hints of fresh coriander leaves and spearmint. The spice notes are soothing and present just on the finish. The fruit notes are reminiscent of litchi, green apples and kiwi. The flowery notes are dominant in yellow flowers with a hint of honeysuckle. There is a hint of sandalwood in the later steeps which blends seamlessly with the flowery character. The liquor coats your mouth and is extremely silky.

It's cool the way that the general impression and flavor categories are almost a complete match with the review that follows, and not one single individual description is common to both.  That's how that goes.  I don't necessarily see that as a problem with tasting skill or a critical limitation of tasting description, it's just that any impression isn't as specific as the descriptions and associations tend to sound.  It's an interpretation, and those would always vary.  Every part of what I wrote matches in general, about complex fruit and floral range, limited spice range, freshness, transition in character across infusions, warm tones, balanced and integrated individual aspects, and thick feel.

Related to accounting for real change in tasting experience, trying a tea a year later (letting it settle due to aging), brewed with different water, using a slightly different brewing process (proportion and timing) would shift results a little.

Related to value / pricing, $14 per 50 grams is getting up there, but for tea that there is only one version of available that's hard to peg in terms of a market rate.  Related to quality level and positive experience this is probably still a good value; it's that pleasant and unique.

It goes without saying, but for people not so familiar with this scope buying "wild" origin teas is a way to ensure they are not grown using chemicals.  There is no way that a producer is out spraying down the forest to protect tea plants already thriving within a balanced ecosystem.  You have to be careful that teas aren't misrepresented, that they're not really plantation grown tea that sounds better described differently, but I'm pretty sure there is no significant risk of that from this source.  If a vendor is buying and reselling something they didn't work closely with producers to have created they might just be passing on a story they heard, not necessarily making that up themselves.  

Evaluating tea origin stories can be tricky.  Hatvala of Vietnam, Kinnari of Laos (which doesn't necessarily serve as a direct retail outlet, but are out there), and Monsoon of Thailand are other examples of vendors who work closely with local producers.  They could all be relied upon to tell accurate stories about origins, because they all played a role in both sourcing and in initiating specific forms of tea production, working directly with local residents who actually harvest and make the teas.

Review:

First infusion:  there's a touch of smoke in this; that's different.  It's so faint that I don't expect it to hang around long as infusions pass, but it does affect this first infusion quite a bit.  It's relatively positive; in the right form and balance smoke can be nice.  The tea probably came in contact with smoke, versus that being a natural taste.  Beyond that it's sweet, rich, and complex, even for the first infusion often being lighter in flavor.  

I'll do better with a flavor list next round but for now a bit of warm depth compliments lighter and sweeter fruit range nicely.  This might taste a bit like peach and vanilla, with the depth relating to mild mineral tone and aromatic wood, which is towards spice.  Feel is rich, not so unusual for white teas.  It's great how warmth, sweetness and depth all indicate some degree of oxidation and freshness and brightness show that to be limited.  A great start!

Second infusion:  I didn't try to use a longer infusion time to bump up intensity, brewing this for no longer than 10 seconds, including the pours.  Again it's interesting how this covers so much aspect scope.  I suppose going from the appearance slight inconsistency in degrees of oxidation might have led to that (more apparent in wet leaves), probably more an accident than something intentional, which worked out well in this case.  

The smoke isn't noticeable at all, replaced by heavy and complex floral tones; it would probably take at least two flowers to describe that range.  Fruit is also present but less forward and intense, now maybe more towards dried apricot.  The warmer range is pleasant, still a light warm mineral with cedar.  As if that wasn't enough there is a vegetal range of aspects that seems to extend across both, as warm, sweet dried autumn leaf tied to the warm part, and towards an actual vegetable matching the lighter tones, or let's say a lot like holy basil (tulsi, to some).

This seems a good place to guess where this is headed; I'd expect transitions to level off this round and then stay stable for most of the rest.  Even minor difference in timing would change brewed tea effect so that could seem like transitions, but not really represent that, if I shift timing a little to longer or shorter.

Third infusion:  warmth picked up; that range increased.  It's interesting how there's so much going on in this that lots of interpretations would make sense [interesting that I wrote that in notes before reading Susmit's description].  This fruit tone could be regarded as any number of things, like dried mango instead, maybe part of that heading towards pumpkin, including citrus peel (a warm version; maybe even grapefruit).  Same for the warmer range.  To me it's quite close to cedar but it's not that far from dried tamarind, or "on the other side" not completely unlike metallic range.  

The floral range is a bigger part of the story I'll probably not do justice to.  One part is rich and heavy, like lavender.  It's more complex than that though, so a hint of sweet depth might seem like rose, or the brighter range like jasmine, just a subdued and integrated version of jasmine.  On the lighter and sweeter side it's more like orchid.  That's a lot of flowers; the range really does seem to cover a lot of scope.  Still it all makes perfect sense together; it integrates.

This is interesting for being one of the more flavor complex teas I've tried in awhile.  The great versions of Darjeeling I've been trying (most from Gopaldhara) were like that but they seemed to often hit 3 or 4 notes hard, with a couple of supporting aspects, and this seems broader, maybe even to represent a range of processing outcomes.  It's not like a blend though, since they probably "got there" by mixing plant versions that may be slightly different genetically (the plants shift in genetic profile as they grow in the wild, as people change in related background over time).  The leaves could've oxidized just a bit differently, as I mentioned, but were all grown and processed together.  Those Darjeeling got the most out of one type of material processed in one way, accentuating novel, positive aspects through consistent processing, which just happened to include enough diverse supporting aspect range to give those good balance. 

Fourth infusion:  this isn't so different than last round, but it did shift a little.  The fruit picked up, evening up with the floral, or maybe moving past it.  It tastes a little like juicyfruit gum, unusually bright and sweet.  I probably did accidentally brew this a few seconds faster, causing warmer range to drop back, and it probably would've shifted a little without that.  

This is the exact opposite of white teas that suffer from either being too subtle, not tasting like much, or not spanning much range, just covering some warm cinnamon with a touch of floral (for shou mei character), or bai mu dan that's floral and sweet with a good bit of melon, and that's it.  The only way that someone wouldn't like this tea is if they are really into other aspect range and aren't flexible about that.  That's wouldn't be as negative as it might seem; someone could get really hooked on sheng pu'er and only make exceptions for some oolong or black tea range, and that would still be plenty to experience.  And I suppose not everyone loves fruit range in teas like I do.

Oddly a Thai Oriental Beauty variation I tried this year isn't so far off this.  It always had reminded me of a white tea more than an oolong, and was heavy on cinnamon and floral tones, maybe with a touch of citrus or light fruit mixed in, but not covering quite as much range as this.  You would think it would've been much more oxidized, matching that typical style, but it really wasn't.  For being moderate cost tea I thought that was great for quality level and novelty, it just didn't land in the typical OB style range.  Then this part is crazy; I liked that tea even better mixed with another white tea to stretch out the range and give it a bit more depth of feel.

Fifth infusion:  I'll leave off here; it's enough to say about one tea, and later transitions won't change an overall impression by much.  Of course this tea will have good durability and will make another 5 very pleasant rounds, using limited timing and high proportion to prepare it.  Balance is just great, and it's still evolving.  The warmth now reminds me of cinnamon, with fruit on to more like cooked peach.  The earlier floral range gave way to that fruit, and the earlier cedar aromatic aspect faded to become that spice, but hints of both give it great depth (in the sense of complexity).

I've said that the feel is rich but I can add to that; in addition to feeling full there is just a hint of dryness that gives it a pleasant edge.  Aftertaste experience is nice, with parts trailing over to make the experience seem longer, for including an extra dimension.  This probably is one of the better white teas I've ever tried.  I expected it to be novel and pleasant but not this complex and refined.  They really nailed it, which had to start with high quality material suited to this plant type.  The best version of a wild source white Monsoon Thai white tea included some similarities, just not quite the same positive result across so much scope.  I thought that was really good even for that; white tea doesn't usually compete with good Darjeeling and fruity oolong for complexity and intensity.

I've not really said where the level of sweetness stands, but explaining a lot about floral and fruit range implied it was above average in level, as I experienced it.  That makes a lot of difference in final effect.  It's hard to imagine a tea including too much natural sweetness, although I suppose that's possible, but if the level is lower that causes tea aspects to not tie together as well.  For a tea like this it could swap out some sweetness for some savory range, like sundried tomato, and that would still work, it would balance.  In saying that this kind of resembles sundried tomato a little too, but to me this last round is closer to dried persimmon, which is related but different.  In between plum and prune works to approximate that, if dried persimmon isn't familiar.

All in all really nice tea.  I expected it to be pleasant but not like this.

Thai OB white and Honey black teas from Alex Phanganovich

 

A few weeks ago I mentioned meeting a local new contact and friend, Alex Phanganovich, and having tea at the swim lesson my kids go to.  We first met at a Monsoon hosted talk about tea, ecological preservation, and biodiversity, presented by Alexey Reshchikov.

not the best shot of him, looking away

I'll keep this simple today.  I'm a little burned out from doing a two-day trip to Kanchanburi, way too fast to get out there and check out that "Death Railway" WW 2 prisoner theme.

It will help that I'm not trying to market these teas, or make firm claims about what they even are.  Alex said that both are from Thailand.  He isn't exactly a tea vendor but if anyone is interested in unusual Thai teas, or just discussion, he's up in the Chiang Rai growing area now. 

Tea Side is a good standard vendor for sourcing the normal range out of Thailand, or even beyond that; that seems relevant.  For just branching into South-East Asian tea range, and trying novel teas at a great value, Hatvala is worth looking into.  Enough on the commercial themes.

One tea was described as a white tea version of Oriental Beauty (which is odd), and the other as Honey Black tea.  As I recall that is usually used in relation to being a certain cultivar source and processed black tea type in Taiwan.  White tea Oriental Beauty from Thailand contains at least two different type convention contradictions, the category and origin, and probably a third related to plant type used.  It may not even be white tea; I'll focus more on an impression than trying to pin down any inputs or putting it in any boxes.

I doubt Alex has enough of these still around to share more, but you never know.  Again, at least on my side this isn't marketing, which to me takes the pressure off related to confirming or passing on details.

I don't recommend combined tasting black and white teas, side by side, but if you want to why not.  It takes some practice to not get thrown off by the contrast in style, and to some extent I still would too.  Reviews with contrasting teas focus more on flavor aspects, and tasting just one to two very similar types would go into feel and aftertaste range more, and probably get further with finer level flavor description.

Review:

OB White:  It's quite pleasant.  A nice hint of cinnamon joins other lighter, brighter, and sweeter range.  Maybe more than a hint; it's about half cinnamon, at this stage.  It's cool the way the rest is a bit warm but also light and bright.  I suppose it's mostly floral, with part seeming like fruit, but no dominant citrus tones stand out, as can occur with OB versions.  It will be interesting to see how it evolves, how it's different in another two rounds.

Honey black:  first impression:  strange.  It shares some common ground with that Taiwanese "honey black" theme, to the extent that is just one thing, and I remember it.  Sure that tastes like honey, but beyond that there's a way that a somewhat standard black tea range comes across that defines that, not malty like Assam, not mineral intensive like Ceylon, not fruity, floral, citrusy, and sophisticated like good Darjeeling.  Novel mineral is one layer to it, but it's about the warm earthy range tone, in a range 10 different people would describe in 10 different ways (like leather, root or bark spice, some variation of wood, roasted chestnut towards dried fruit, and so on).  

Often coming across as generally very positive, but also slightly limited in range, is part of the theme for those Taiwanese black teas, at the moderate quality level of versions I tended to try.  Versions being more consistently positive across complex character range, and quite refined, only happens with the best examples.  It's the same with all teas; buy a standard Da Hong Pao or Rou Gui and it would be nothing like the Wuyi Origin versions I keep reviewing.  This tea being this broken would limit results; that always bumps up astringency and makes results less positive.  It's not astringent at all though, due to the starting point, that not being a main part of the character.

The "strange" part is something else.  It has a funkiness to it, not exactly musty, but maybe closest to that range.  There's a decent chance that whatever that was about will be "burned off" in this first infusion.  I don't think it was a storage-input flaw, probably just an odd part of the character of this tea, tied to how it happened to change through oxidation.  But what do I know.  

It might include a trace of cinnamon too.  Along with the mustiness there's a hint of sourness.  To some this would be a huge flaw in the tea that really puts them off; to others just a normal part of experience very novel tea types, well-balanced by the other positive aspect range.  To me this tea will only really fully show its character on the second infusion, so I'll leave off further description until that.  The other tea will develop but it was obvious what it is like in the first go, to help place what I meant by that.

Second infusion:

OB:  more of the same, just becoming a little richer and deeper.  Cinnamon still really stands out.  There is complexity beyond that cinnamon range but the rest is really subtle.  Pushing this tea a bit more would help with that; I'm brewing both on the fast side, and the black tea version will extract faster for being black tea, and for being broken leaf.  It's pleasant brewed light still.  Probably intensity across a broad range just isn't a strength of this tea anyway, but a check on that brewed for closer to 20 seconds next round will help clarify that.  It's quite pleasant, maybe a bit simple, but pleasant across the range that is there, with some feel depth making the experience broader.

Honey black:  the unusual strengths and weaknesses of this tea make it an interesting experience.  At least it's not boring.  There's that honey sweetness and standard "honey black" flavor range, all quite positive.  Character related to astringency isn't bad; it's not edgy or negative.  Then there is a funkiness to it that's hard to describe, probably mostly or at least partly related to drinking this as such a broken-leaf version.  Some of that would probably seem more familiar if it wasn't that teas like this aren't typically prepared that way.  There's a good chance that this one wasn't either, that I'm trying the bottom of the bag for a very large batch, and the top, or the rest, looked more like I would've expected.

I think just as a more whole leaf version this would come across as much cleaner in character.  It's not musty, or as sour as initially, and even a trace of off mineral or mushroom would drop out a lot of the positive overall character, if there had been any present, but there's not.  

I wouldn't buy a tea like this one, but to some extent that depends on personal preference for type.  Five years ago I think I would've (and a search by name turns up reviews of two versions in this blog), and I've shifted into loving Dian Hong range more (Yunnan black), and am more open to good Darjeeling and Nepal black than this.  I never really "got" Ruby / Red Jade as another standard Taiwanese type (the cultivar name; it can be processed in different ways), that mintiness or eucalyptus flavor.  It's just preference.

That makes me wonder what tea plant type the "honey black" version from Taiwan is made from.  One vendor's description:

Very precious since only the tea bitten by Jacobiasca formosana can be made into Honey Black Tea.

Honey-like taste with slight sweet.

No pesticide in the tea plantation having Jacobiasca formosana, natural organic team.

Only being harvested once a year in summer in Taiwan.

The tea stored for more than one year give better taste.

Other vendor posts are essentially identical.  A blog-type review (through Tea Masters, written by Kevin Craig, who had reviewed teas as Tea Journeyman) mentions a cultivar type (which may or may not be universal):

This tea is generally made from the harvested leaves of TTES # 13 cultivar bushes (Tsuiyu), and are grown at around 500 meters altitude (1,600 feet) in Nantou County, Taiwan. The leaves are allowed to oxidize over 50%, then given a heavy roast. The Mixiang Hongcha is another of Taiwan’s bug bitten style of teas, so I expect to smell and taste honey in the tea.

Third infusion:

OB:  creamy, with notable cinnamon, and pleasant other depth, so not different.  If this really is a white tea one might wonder, why?  It's possible to draw out even more flavor complexity and intensity by making a similar oolong version, so why not do that?  Then again maybe one of the inputs is different, leading to this white tea version being more positive than an oolong would be, made from this material.  That seems unlikely, but the point is that me guessing would only get so far.  

I do like it.  The heavy cinnamon range and other non-distinct complexity make it pleasant.  Prepared as an above average quality oolong it would seem that it would be even better.

Honey:  I like this tea too, but it's another story of limitations cutting short achieving the true potential.  All the positive aspects of a honey black tea are there, the unique flavor complexity, approachable nature, interesting balance, overall novelty.  

There's a longer flavor-list of aspects I could be saying more about, probably offset and made harder to identify by the broken leaf adding more mild astringency and dry earthiness.  The slate-mineral undertone is actually positive, mixing well with the honey, cinnamon, and mild dried fruit range (to try to put a name to it), but there's a bit more countering that, more towards the smell of a galvanized pipe.  It's not a flaw, a limitation that's bad, but not positive either, and not something that makes the final effect better.

Conclusions:

It seems that there are two ways to interpret what I've said here.  One is that both are novel takes on established types, positive in the same ways, interesting and pleasant, good for covering most of that standard range and for being a bit different.  I've literally said all of that.  Or someone could focus on what I've said about limitations, and could only want to try the "best of the best," or highest forms of standard types, and all of this could sound like condemnation, accusing the teas of not quite getting there.  I think others' tasting experience would probably also head in those two different directions, based on their pre-conceptions and biases.  These could seem like really positive, interesting teas or else like complete misses.

I think it's important to stay open to experiencing a broad range in teas, but that's just me.  Doing the opposite definitely works too, narrowing what you like to very few types.  Or even a single type range, and only ever experiencing very good versions of those, higher and higher quality levels.  On both sides that could be interpreted in different ways.  On the broad-themed approach someone could explore geographical origins, or even stay open to blends and flavored teas, jasmine or lotus flavored versions, masala chai, and so on.  On the narrower end someone might only drink a limited sub-set of Dan Cong, or Taiwanese oolongs, or sheng pu'er from a few villages within a narrow age range.

It would make sense to write about trying the next three rounds of these but I won't.  On the next round warm richness comes out all the more for the OB, but distinct fruit and other range is still limited.  That same honey and fruit / spice complexity is present in the Honey version, with a hint of dryness and mineral that doesn't match the standard throwing it off just a little.  Both are good.  Both are off the general standard type a bit.  For being from Thailand the match is actually pretty good, especially if you factor in one being a different tea type (category) and the other a bit broken.

I never did develop how this OB is different related to being "white."  That would just add more guesses and discussion, not explanation.  It's probably a bit more subtle, developing light brighter flavors versus warmer tones.

meeting up at a local shop, Jip Eu

light and sound show at the Kanchanaburi bridge; too much sound, really

in memory of a lot of people who gave everything to protect everyone else

Tropical fruit flavored "wild" Assamica Thai oolong

named after the river that runs past Bangkok

Visiting with a friend awhile back the owner of Monsoon, who made this tea, stopped by and shared some samples with us.  It's the second time that I've met Kenneth Rimdahl (that owner); he seems like a really nice guy.  He talks about the forest-friendly theme here.

I could be clearer on the "Assamica" part in this title.  Old, wild-growing tea plants in the North of Thailand are exclusively Assamica variety, per my understanding, but my understanding wouldn't always be accurate.  There are so many tangents to get to in this post, along with the review itself, that I'll not dwell further on it here, or say more about the wild and "forest friendly" aspects.

Kenneth in white; Sasha (right) hasn't been mentioned here for awhile

I've written a little about that in this post, which related to meeting Kenneth the second time.  In that post I downplay the overall impact making a limited amount of tea from wild sources will have on the industry, but if the impact is still positive that's a good thing, and it sets up a basis for expanding that over time.  This post relates to meeting him in my favorite Chinatown shop prior to that, and we did talk about that background there. 

Of course wild sourced tea is a very positive theme; old tea plants really are growing in a natural fashion in different places (organically, in a biodiverse environment), and the tea from such plants tends to be mild in character (low astringency), intense in flavor, and very pleasant.  It's hard to not notice that the tin presentation, the container, contradicts the conservation theme, but this isn't a critique of how it all works taken together.

three years ago; the time flies

On the subject of tangents, I wanted to also share which flavored teas I've liked best in this post.  It's a subject that doesn't come up often here, not for a couple of years in any post, and one I tend to discredit or downplay.  But to be clear I think there's nothing wrong with people liking all sorts of different teas (even Lipton tea bags), and flavored teas can be interesting in diverse.  To me natural, better-quality, loose-leaf versions are more interesting, in general, but citing some exceptions helps place my take on all that.

I think this is lychee and mango

Review

The first infusion is really fruity; it tastes like lychee and mango. Taste is clean, more natural in effect than flavored teas would generally be. A bright citrus aspect is a bit lemony but mango often includes something like that naturally, and lychee isn't far off that range either. Lychee is my overall favorite tropical fruit, and mango might be a close second. It's hard to get much read on the tea itself in a light first infusion.

More of the same on the second infusion, brewed for close to 20 seconds, a bit strong as other tea types go, for this proportion. Flavor is really clean; aroma is pleasant. Sweetness and other aspect balance is good. It's still hard to pin down what the tea itself is like beyond the flavoring but it integrates well. It's a light oolong, not dissimilar to a Jin Xuan, but since this should be Assamica it should be quite different.

Normally I'd only only provisionally like any blend or flavored tea, it could be fine for what it is, but this works as an exception. It's good.

Vegetal range is picking up as fruit drops off but this is still sweeter and fruitier than a plain light oolong. It's not vegetal in the sense of green beans or pepper picking up, more a floral range with just a trace of green wood. For as clean and pleasant as this is it had to be fine plain, but I get it why a lot of people would prefer it flavored. I'd have to try a plain version to know which seems better.

A touch of butteriness picks up; that might have been what reminded me of Jin Xuan, even though I didn't notice it in the last round.

The fruit flavor is hanging in there, two thirds dropped out, or so, but still a main component. The overall effect is still really nice, bright, sweet, fresh, and complex. These flavors must be extracts of some kind; there's no way chemicals would taste this natural. I should ask Kenneth but probably won't; blog posts take forever with Q & A back and forth as an input.  I'll do an interview post later if I get to it.

It's hard to do much with evaluating this as an Assamica based oolong, in part due to the flavoring layer input. It's clean, with good complexity and feel, a lot like a well above average Thai oolong.  This other post covers trying two of the very rare Assamica based oolongs I've ever had that worked really well, versions from Hatvala from Vietnam.  But those were more-oxidized in style, a completely different thing (what people often call "red oolong," a popular but less common style imported from Taiwan).


Later rounds:  3 more rounds stayed pleasant and well-balanced, with fruit tones fading and woody flavor picking up.  Even after 8 or so infusions the tea was still quite pleasant; interesting an added flavor would hang in there that long, even if greatly diminished.  I put the leaves in the refrigerator with lukewarm water after those rounds, to cold brew for an extra infusion; they still weren't done yet.

It would seem more conventional for people to brew this Western style, of course, for people more into flavored teas to just brew 2 or 3 rounds in a teapot or some infuser instead.  That would work.

I really liked it.  The color shows it's a very lightly oxidized oolong, which is either a good or bad thing, depending on how that suites the final tea aspects and character, and for this it worked really well.

Other flavored teas

There's nothing necessarily wrong with flavored teas, or liking flavored teas, but inexpensive, low-quality versions are often more a gateway to better tea than a final preference destination.  Artificially flavored, low quality tea based versions aren't like this blend, closer to how flavoring gas-station coffee with those artificially flavored non-dairy creamer cups comes across (which can be ok, for a road-trip caffeine fix).

I'll list a few flavored tea versions I've really liked, with these exceptions intended to fill in what I think represents the best of this category.


Earl Grey:  no need to go to far with describing this; bergamot essential oil (citrus) blended black tea should be familiar.  If not go try some.  Twinings loose version isn't too bad, but even better versions than theirs can be really nice.  I've reviewed a good bit of Earl Grey here but none of those reviews shed any more light on what it is, or how it is.  An interesting version from the Cordon Bleu cooking school was really maxed out for that orange citrus flavor, right at the balance point for being too much.  That seemed like a natural place to set that level, upon drinking it.  I think they stopped making it though; a later search about it didn't turn it up.


Monsoon coconut flavored black tea:  this really stuck with me (that post was from 2005).  This same producer made a relatively natural version (per my understanding) that worked really well as a winter / Christmas seasonal theme experience.  Some extracted, essential oil version of coconut really captured the flavor of toasted coconut (presumably it was that), combined with what seemed like a pretty decent black tea.  I'll drink that again someday.


Jasmine black tea:  my overall favorite flavored tea, probably.  To me jasmine works much better with black tea than green, and balances and complements it even better than bergamot essential oil.  A bad version might seem off, but even Indonesian grocery store versions were good.  Hatvala, a Vietnamese vendor, makes my favorite that I've tried (reviewed here), but Moychay also produced a really exceptional example.  It's hard to describe further than just saying that this particular floral range and good black tea work really well together, even better than it sounds.

the cacao nibs on the lower right; they work better ground a bit more, like coffee

Chocolate flavored tea:  I've not done much with this popular flavored tea sub-theme (maybe well represented by David's Tea selection).  Two Christmas themed blends, based mostly on a masala chai base, did use cacao nibs and actual chocolate.  Both masala chai and Christmas blends are promising directions for blends that aren't really typical of flavor-added teas.  The most basic version of the latter is something along the lines of black tea, orange peel, cinnamon, and mint, or just a twist on a masala chai recipe, maybe adding pine needles or something such.  Cacao husks would be a good way to add real chocolate flavor to any tea, probably as well balanced with a mild black version as any (the nibs, the actual "bean," can be hard to infuse).

fruit peels dried for one of those Christmas blends

That seems like a good place to leave off.  Blending other flavors into teas is promising, it's just that drinking single-type, narrow-origin, high-quality plain versions of teas is even more promising.  None of those blends or flavored tea posts are from the last two years; I've just not been exploring that lately.  I made a mostly herbal version of masala chai that worked well when I was sick last year; that's an exception (and tried chen pi then, from looking that up, tea stuffed in an orange / tangerine peel).  I really like masala chai, it just takes some messing around to make a version, and I don't get to it often.