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Qiaomu Qi Zi left, Xianxi Kongque right, in all photos |
Moychay sent some sample of aged sheng to try awhile back, which I've reviewed a couple of, but haven't got so far with. That is a favorite and fascinating tea category; it was really about illness (covid), vacation, and catching up on other samples that slowed getting further.
I didn't check what these are prior to tasting, beyond what was clear from the labels, and them being from 2009. It seemed like a likely theme might be these being heavily fermented, even for being 13 years old, since that came up in the earlier aged sheng samples. I don't know where any were stored but it wasn't dry there. That did come up again, but let's check the Moychay information first, prior to the review notes:
Qiaomu Qi Zi Bing Sheng Cha (2009), 360 g.
Sheng Puerh from Changning Mentong Yinshan Factory. The shoots from the tea trees of Yinshan Mountain (Baoshan County) of the 2009 harvest were used as raw materials.
360-grams teacake of medium density easily separates into twisted brown leaves, buds and thin cuttings...
The aroma is vibrant, fruity-balsamic. The taste is rich and strong, silky, sweetish, slightly spicy, with juicy woody astringency, herbaceous bitterness, sourness of green apples and a refreshing aftertaste.
Cost stands out in that listing, $63 for 360 grams. Unless I'm wrong they've shifted the site prices to reflect the current weaker Russian ruble exchange rate, so this may well have been around $100, or over that, at the beginning of the year. Still, inexpensive as 13 year old sheng goes, depending on quality level. That depends on source too, and what the tea is, experienced aspects in addition to reputation of the branded version. I didn't add a conclusions section yet, when editing to add description to notes, so I'll add a take on quality level and match to personal preference there.
It's interesting scanning through customer site comments there but I'll skip mentioning that part here, since there is plenty in the post already. Customers really liked it, and to me it was ok in relation to my preference, just not great, but with value factored in maybe a bit better.
Xiangxi Kongque Sheng Pu (2009), 360 g.
“Xiangxi” (“Lovesickness“) is an aged sheng Puerh from Changning Mentong Yinshan Factory (Baoshan County), harvest 2009.
360-grams teacake of medium density easily separates into twisted brown leaves, buds and thin cuttings...
The bouquet of the ready-made tea is mature, woody-balsamic with notes of autumn leaves, oak moss, herbs and fruits. The aroma is deep and warm, fruity-balsamic. The taste is rich, silky, sweetish, slightly spicy, with woody astringency, sourness of green apples and a refreshing finish.
This lists for $57, even less, but again part of that being so low probably relates to an exchange rate anomaly. Still, it would be fair to judge this as a presented as medium quality, value oriented, somewhat aged sheng pu'er. A vendor like Yunnan Sourcing would list teas like this, but they wouldn't get the same amount of attention that their younger in-house versions would, so it would take some paging through listings to even find them. Kunming storage is dry, the opposite of what these seemed to experience, so while these teas are relatively far along for fermentation level I'd expect most YS 13 year old sheng to be well-preserved, for better or worse. This 2005 sheng version from Chawang Shop highlights that tendency and divide; it is much less fermented than these two teas, even though it's 4 years older.
I don't think we can accept as an assumption that either range is better, fairly well fermented (more wet stored), or fairly well preserved (on the dry side). It varies by preference, and outcome might well depend as much on the starting point character of any given tea as a general preference for type. Some people might think they want ideal storage, not wet or dry, but what that is would vary by preference, and skill in managing conditions might factor in as much as local geographical climate.
One last point, on review perspective: I tend to only review what I like most, since that makes for the most interesting story to tell. I'm a little more mixed on how these work out, per match to preference, but there is a story to be told about how moderate cost, mostly-aged sheng versions tend to be.
On with tasting results, and comments on how it all plays out in these cases.
Review:
Qiaomu Qi Zi: heavy on mushroom initially. That kind of aspect can fade fast but this is strong enough that it's going to be a few rounds before it drops out, if it does. That's not my favorite range for sheng flavor. To me it tastes like tree fungus smells, more than mushroom, but dried wild mushroom is close enough.
It has other depth "behind" that letting it show potential, sweetness, warmth, complexity, aged furniture range, maybe even warm spice. But that mushroom is going to need to ease up for me to be able to appreciate that. It's cleaner than all this probably makes it sound, not really musty, or overly earthy, just quite fermented for being 13 years old, with one flavor aspect that I don't necessarily see as positive.
Xiangxi Kongque: maybe a trace of mushroom, but none at all in comparison with that dominating the other. Slightly earthy, heavy, even a touch musty other range is probably more like one would expect from how I'm describing the first tea. I get a sense this will "clean up" fast though, that a lot of that will be present during the next round but that for this I'm tasting early round effects that will clear.
One particular heavy earthy and mineral flavor stands out; both of these are so fermented for being this age. Storage had to be on the wet side, I guess. For them being so heavy in flavor there isn't really much musty or off range (a subject that I could say a lot more about in relation to local Bangkok storage experiences), so apparently that was carefully controlled, not pushing over into a set of conditions that could ruin the tea. That's unless someone doesn't like tea like this, then it was actually ruined, just in a more limited sense, "not matching preference." It's not "off," as I see it. I think the next round will be about a lot of transition, at least for this version, and what I mean by all that will be clearer during a third infusion.
It's not that my friend Ralph (of the Daily Tealagraph page on Instagram) dislikes teas fermented heavily, but more that he describes having a somewhat negative symptom reaction from the effect. These may or may not trigger that; I'm not sure of how that cause and effect works out. For taste preference not favoring heavy flavors from high degree of fermentation input these wouldn't be good, and based on the opposite I think they might turn out to be quite favorable. But character transitions across infusions will tell that story.
Qiaomu Qi Zi, second infusion: I'm not brewing these quite as fast as I would tend to for younger versions, I guess related to trying to keep that transition pace moving through these early rounds. It's going to make them come across as even heavier in tone and more intense, not that I would confuse these for being faded, subtle aged sheng versions if I brewed them lighter.
Heavy mushroom, again. I think the balance is shifting, that all that other range I described as behind or supporting that has drawn even. There's no way mushroom (or fungus) taste will drop out by the next round but the balance could be quite different. It's cool the way that heavy earth flavor, even in the range of peat or geosmin (dirt), still seems clean in a sense. Complex mouthfeel and aftertaste really starts to kick in for this. It'll be interesting seeing how a more favorable balance works out next round.
Xiangxi Kongque: I'm going to need some sort of palate cleansing food or drink to get through all this and retain any sense of taste; this is intense and heavy, again. The last description still works, I could just make more of a start on whether the extra flavors gaining ground in terms of expression are really aged furniture, aromatic oils, or dried fruit, versus how much this tastes like dirt, cement blocks, or rocks. It's still good though, in a sense, and again I think the third round is really where this review more or less starts, on the more positive evolved character for both. So let's skip ahead. It's time to moderate infusion time, back to less than 10 seconds, to stop pushing through extraction to drive transition and see how these are brewed more optimally.
Qiaomu Qi Zi, third infusion: right on schedule, the mushroom input eases up, letting other aspect range express itself. Still heavy flavors, of course, even for brewing this fast, not much over 5 seconds. Going with a lower proportion to make dialing in timing easier would make sense; it wasn't any optimum that led me to use this "full gaiwan" approach, just daily brewing practice habit.
These heavy flavors could be interpreted in lots of ways, as including aged furniture, heavy mineral base, towards spice range, as peat or geosmin, including dried fruit, etc. I think they will clean up to become more distinct next round, all mixing with the last traces of that mushroom "burning off" this round. Complexity is certainly good in this, and again the range is much cleaner than before, which wasn't murky or musty beyond so much dried mushroom standing out. Thick mouthfeel and aftertaste extension of the experience are nice; those will probably carry over as positive inputs across a lot of rounds.
Xiangxi Kongque: this seems a little limited in comparison, covering a narrower range, with a bit less of the sweet complexity filling in (aromatic wood, spice / aromatic oil, dried fruit). It's not a subtle tea, and intensity is fine, there is just less aspect range. Heavier mineral and earth tone stands out across a limited scope, warm rock into cement range and then towards dark aromatic wood, or really maybe towards how tree roots tend to smell. I don't see that as positive or negative, more just interesting. With it having so much depth it could easily evolve to include more positive complexity, but the other is already there, if it can "clean up" just a little more.
Moving through rounds of teas this intense is going to affect my mental state a bit. I don't tend to talk about that, never mind shifts in internal energy patterns, even though for some people that is the point, not sensory experience. Doing combined tasting trades off being able to isolate the effect of any one tea, which to many people reviewing sheng would be unthinkable. The upside is being able to place one sensory experience against another, and getting through samples and tea experience faster. If I can only review tea once a week that's 50 or so reviews a year, which is a lot, but I tend to try to cover even more versions than that. This process and the editing afterwards takes time, so doing two reviews per week is pushing it.
Qiaomu Qi Zi, fourth infusion: mushroom returns; I've probably brewed this slightly stronger, letting heavier flavors stand out more. The overall balance is interesting though, and pleasant. There is a lot going on beyond that. The richness of feel is nice, not really something I would call astringency, but even this form of body is related to that. A cleaner caramel sort of range emerges, joining aged furniture and dried fruit tones, just very heavy dried fruit, starting from dried Chinese date but extending into warm spice range. It's interesting how it covers so much scope but seems unified, integrated.
I'm wondering why this tastes this much like mushroom. Is that a storage conditions related input, or does a different kind of intensity naturally transition to that, regardless of pace or form of change? If I had experienced a lot more cases of teas changing from one thing to another, with a broad range of storage conditions background, then I would know better. I should at least find out where these teas probably spent this past 13 years, if that's not in the product descriptions, which is generally not listed in Moychay sheng descriptions.
Xiangxi Kongque: it's interesting the way that heavy flavor I described in different ways shifts to seem a lot like coffee in this round, even a medium level roast. A bit of geosmin remains, that's a big part of the effect, but it has been joined by other flavor range, which I guess one may or may not describe as cleaner. A touch of vaguely musty mushroom edge is present too; that would probably seem a lot stronger an input to me if it wasn't a much higher proportion input in the other (not as much this round; I mean in general).
Both of these teas are definitely only suitable for people who like strong fermentation range input. At a guess it may work to store these quite a bit drier for a few years and a lot of that heavier, potentially objectionable range could clear up. In 2 or 3 it might be possible to see that change occurring, but it's possible that a relatively complete transition might not occur that fast. If I try teas that have a pronounced musty edge from storage here, which I think often relates to a combination of hot and humid storage and getting essentially no air contact at all, I can experience the bulk of that clear up within half a year, but this seems to be a different and deeper level input, a main part of what these teas are now, and perhaps will always be. The point was that the heaviest flavor range might still fade, while these pick up depth, but I don't know.
If both could transition to become clearer, sweeter, smoother, and more complex after a few more years in relatively dry storage both could become more exceptional in relation to what I prefer most. Or if one values heavy earthy flavors, even including geosmin and dried mushroom range, they could be seen as in a great place now. It will be interesting to see how website page comments place them. Usually input doesn't lead to that depth, and certainly doesn't relate to future potential, and half the people commenting say they like the teas just as they are, and the other half find them flawed and limited, regardless of how any teas are. Surely a really good or bad tea could push towards drawing out one take or the other instead, but half and half comes up a lot. Comments were like that, and here's an interesting example on the positive side:
It combines an old damp barn, a wet garden, some perfume, beetroot sweetness, dustiness, apple notes, but all these parts are very lapped and smoothed. The taste is balanced and pleasant.
Not the exact same aspect interpretation I arrived on, but this kind of works. Connection or gap with preference is something else, if someone sees this as balanced or pleasant or not.
On a site like Yunnan Sourcing 90% of the consumer input is positive, which I think relates more to bias and expectation about what one should communicate than people being more positive and negative. People barely offer any justification or detail to why they feel as they do there, where on the Moychay site at least one detail is always included explaining why they arrive at an opinion, again probably relating to standard communication form instead of them not having more to say on the YS site.
This part is more my own speculation--not the rest wasn't--but I think that people offering Yunnan Sourcing product commentary see themselves as a good judge of tea for describing why they appreciate and like products, and the same is true of Russians criticizing Moychay teas, that they could also place themselves as experienced good judges of tea for noticing why versions are flawed or limited. I don't think it's just optimism or pessimism driving that, instead that it's a local tea culture factor, but I can't really unpack it further.
Qiaomu Qi Zi, fifth infusion: I'll keep this short, trying to get through one more round after to do something with my kids. I like the balance in this, how all those previously described aspects are coming together in an even level, including warm tones, sweetness, earthy aspects across a broad range, with geosmin replacing mushroom now, heavy mineral, aged furniture / aromatic wood, and dried fruit. There's a lot going on, and a general sense of richness really stands out. It's not musty but for people preferring clean, sweet, lighter flavor range it would have to be too much. Sheng can age to fade to include depth but not that heavy range; it's not just about fermentation transition level.
Xiangxi Kongque: this seems to lack complexity in relation to the other tea, but I think taken without that side by side comparison it would fare better. There's plenty going on, not in dis-similar terms of how I've described the other, just maybe less. Somehow richness level doesn't match, but that's an emergent interpretation based on a lot of the rest, not just one thing. Maybe the caramel / toffee range in the other helps it seem that way, and this lacks that. Feel isn't as smooth and full, including a dry edge instead. What I've described as a coffee taste is positive, I think, but the rest doesn't extend as far.
Qiamou Qi Zi sixth infusion: still improving, but only marginally. Spice range emerges as the rest cleans up. The best of this tea I'll probably skip reviewing for not doing a dozen round description of it in notes. Pounding through more than a dozen combined infusions and writing notes for over an hour and a half are too much for these review sessions. I ate some steamed peanuts between rounds to give my palate a rest and settle my stomach but that wouldn't be enough to offset drinking 20 cups of these teas.
Xiangxi Kongque: not changing that much. It's in an interesting place, in between a lot of relative extremes, leaning towards a heavy, earthy, but still balanced experience. It's funny that these could age transition this much in 13 years, but I expected that based on others in this set being like that. Wherever they've spent that time it had to be quite warm and humid. Like here in Bangkok, I guess. Or I cave environment sort of storage could've pushed these to age faster through humidity input without the temperature as a factor, potentially explaining why some of that mushroom and geosmin developed to the degree it did, for them being in an active microfauna environment.
Later infusions: nice for being cleaner, balanced, still plenty intense, and generally more positive than the first 3 or 4 were. I would guess that these both represent good value-oriented examples of ways to access relatively fully fermentation transitioned teas, instead of drinking 20+ year old examples that tend to cost quite a bit more. Those early rough edges are probably the cost of taking this alternative path, the mushroom and geosmin being a bit pronounced.
These will both probably express at least one more interesting aspect over the next few rounds, which I'll make no notes for (this is based on interpreting the seventh). Longevity is an issue too, how they work out past a dozen infusions.
Conclusions:
It's interesting trying to place this experience in relation to preference, how good the teas seemed, related to how pleasant. I can appreciate and enjoy but don't love sheng that is fermented to this degree, or in this way, if that makes sense. It's ok, an interesting experience, just not a personal favorite. It's not that the negative (or potentially negative) aspects seem problematic, or that it's too limited in some way, it just doesn't click as much as other range.
Someone else could easily tie this back to what they see as objective quality markers, and set up a divide in terms of expecting whatever other positive aspect range, maybe body feel related, which again you lose for comparison tasting, or tied to camphor or whatever else, about mouthfeel or aftertaste, and so on. Maybe this form of heavy fermentation effect could be seen as a flaw. To me it's just not a personal favorite range; that's it. The teas are interesting and generally good but not that kind of preference match. It will be interesting seeing how that relates to value concerns, going back and adding that in an intro section after the note taking / tasting phase.
[Later]: for these being value-oriented teas I think they're fine. I've bought teas as moderate quality, relatively aged sheng versions in the local Bangkok Chinatown and the trade-offs you encounter in character for those are similar, giving up a rough edge here or a little depth there. It's nice owning a couple of older, inexpensive sheng cakes to see how they keep changing, and to have that to drink when you feel like it. Others wouldn't have the same Chinatown shop access in a lot of places, so teas like these would fill that gap.
As to value the cost of these prior to what I think was an exchange rate general pricing drop matches what I tend to pay for those here, around $90.
To be as transparent as possible I'm not tracking how much a lot of items cost on the Moychay site, but happened to look up what their pressed tisane bars cost in relation to making a social media post comment in the past week or so. Listed price went down, considerably, from around $4.50 to just over $3, exactly what one would expect in relation to ruble devaluation, even after the Russian government propped that level back up to a somewhat recovered rate.
Or then again checking on that exchange rate maybe all that is completely wrong:
They managed to prop it up almost back to where it had been; interesting. This post isn't supposed to be about finance or current events, so I won't speculate further, but I'm still guessing that currency value fluctuations are shifting the Moychay prices, at least related to listings in dollar values.
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