New running shoes; on training theories and approaches

 

Not long ago I was telling a friend who runs about it seeming odd that I've only bought close-out sale shoes for running, none of which were probably well-regarded examples of standard contemporary technology, not even medium performance level shoes.  Then with some research it turned out that the last close-out sale pair I'd bought were actually "real" running shoes, a now-dated version of New Balance Beacon 3.  That indirectly led to re-visiting running training and equipment themes.  

And also my Dad, who just had both knees replaced with artificial joints, recently told me that the condition is genetic, and that running is one of the worst things you can do for your knees--no secret there.  Since I'm 54 now I'm conditioning to stay in good health, but the typical age for me to experience such problems is drawing closer now that I'm on the later side of middle age.

older than last year's model at this point

I'm not a serious runner.  I've been running for four years now, but weekly distance has been limited, and training approach is non-existent; I run whatever I run.  Nothing here should be taken as actionable advice, and it would probably be more interesting to non-runners than runners, who would already know more than I do.  To maximize training effect I was using an interval theme for quite awhile, running a 2 mile loop (around a square city block, on a running track), at near maximum speed for one 800+ meter segment.  That essentially goes against the main standard training theories and approaches, running that short a distance, and emphasizing running one part faster on every run.  I'll add a little about reviewing running training theories here later.  

That early intention related to replacing spending 20 minutes on a cross-country simulating exercise machine, which didn't seem effective at all, with a half hour or so of light running.  Later that was much more pleasant, but early acclimation to running isn't a great experience.

Skipping ahead, looking at online Youtube channels about running themes naturally led to me wanting to upgrade my shoes, not the decent new pair I just cycled into rotation with two others, but replacing those others.  Eventually a performance and biometric tracking sports watch would seem essential, but I've resisted that part up until now, because I don't want to run in that kind of structured way, to be up against a clock and training theme every day.  It's nice running by feel, and I'm not training for any set purpose, like achieving a race time.  

Since I did run cross country and track in high school I'm not afraid that I'll get something completely wrong, or injure myself; to me it's just running.  Injury risk is real, and I've experienced two minor injuries, so the point is that I want to be careful but I don't feel like I need to follow running culture consensus input to be safe.  

Back to the shoe theme, the main thread here, New Balance shoes are well-regarded, in general, but it seems like Hoka maximum cushion shoes are more trendy now, maybe with a few other brands catching up over the last few years.  A range of carbon-plate energy return racing shoes are one of the recent themes, with varieties of designs and foam types (and uppers, the top, and so on) evolving every year.  And Asics shoes are especially well regarded, and all the more attractive since I've ran mostly in Asics and New Balance shoe versions so far.

After local shopping, including a trip to an outlet, I found an especially highly praised "shoe of the year" contender on sale through a local online outlet, and bought a pair of Asics Novablast 3 (the first photo).  After one outing I can already say that they feel great; it's like running on a stiff trampoline.  [Edit:  make that two runs in two days; I'm so excited about the new shoes it might be hard not overdoing it.]

How my running is going

As to the training side I still don't have a performance tracking watch, so I don't know details people normally would, like heart rate, but I at least did recently carry a phone to track how fast I'm running now.  It had always been telling me about how many steps I walk a day, without me asking, so that only involved clicking on a pre-installed app that I hadn't been using.  

I'm running at about 6-6:15 minutes per kilometer, or 9:40 and up minutes per mile, across varying distances.  I tracked half that two mile circuit at about that speed, then a 6.25 km run, then 9.8 km run, all the same.  It's a normal pace for me now, it seems.  Messing around with bumping distance and frequency have screwed me up a little, not always with positive effect, but that 6 minute km range is comfortable, so I'll stick with that for awhile to normalize the experience further, then add in limited faster runs later.  

the local palace that I run around

Looking at those stats in 9 days I've ran a relatively comfortable pace on that 6.25 km loop (two rounds) in 43 minutes, then 40, 39, and 38.  Those times are a little faster than they appear for that time including a short 4 minute warm stretch after the first mile or so (1.5 km, roughly), a step that I added after an injury years back.  I've ran 6 times in 9 days, lots more than my earlier 2 or 3 outings per week.  

I've been working on slowing down the runs in order to get out more often, and I think instead I've trained to where roughly the same pace that had seemed more challenging earlier now does feel slower, that 6 min / km / 9.5 min / mile range.  It doesn't really follow a training theory, but I've been at least hearing about those more lately, if not actually putting them into practice.  I don't think I've conditioned significantly more in the last two weeks, to be clear, it seems instead that relaxing more while I run makes a big difference, which is easier said than done.

To someone who hasn't been a "jogger" for a few years it might seem odd that I keep placing myself on the level of a "couch to 10k" training non-runner, after four years of running several times every week, when I just said that running a 10k distance in an hour is just a moderate intensity training run for me.  People who run, whether they are or aren't serious about it, would get it, that there are a variety of levels.  

Intermediate training level runners, people who race, and take training moderately seriously, put in more mileage, and generally start to experiment with different running paces, training themes, and heart-rate based approaches, which I'm not experimenting with.  Or on to trying to adjust cadence and breathing patterns, mechanics, or any number of details.  Running 10 miles per week isn't much conditioning base, and I haven't been averaging that prior to just now.  I've only increased from 4 miles to 6 on longer runs within the last month or so.  I just ran 36.5 km in that 9 days I'd mentioned, by far the most I've covered in that time, or 22 miles, but that's still not even 20 miles per week.

A word of warning, which probably should be more of a starting point:  randomly messing around with these themes and variations is a good way to get injured.  I think that even though that limited-distance higher-intensity segment I practiced, for well over a year, or maybe 2, isn't a good approach for conditioning for cardiovascular capacity improvement, it probably did still build up muscle and connective tissue strength.  Because I had worked up to increasing intensity for a year or two first I didn't get injured (two minor injuries came earlier, in the less demanding build-up period), but I was probably still lucky.  That approach is surely terrible for routine training in relation to impact on your body, and as a result I would run at most every other day, a cycle I've been having trouble moving past.  In general 5 or 6 days running a week seems to be more of an intermediate level norm.  

People serious about running might just run and run, 50 to 100 miles a week, even though that sounds unsustainable.  How?  I don't completely get that part.  It might be that they condition to tolerate more and more volume, that being better and better acclimated to it keeps reducing the impact on your body.  It's easier to learn about details for training approaches than it is about training experience progression, which I'll cover next.  Two main inputs (parts of that explanation of tolerance for higher miles), which I don't cover much here, are building up to any degree of running intensity, frequency, and distance, and how helpful it is to just not be in your 50s.  

In my 20s I would go out snowboarding however often it came up (living at a ski resort), working labor intensive jobs in the days or evenings, or both (restaurant server, bellman, whatever it was), and after adjusting to the demands I didn't experience any muscle soreness day to day.  I could go hike 16-18 miles, going up a 14,000 foot high mountain with no preparation, and just felt a little sore the next day.  Now I experience recovery as more of a concern, exercising much less, more consistently at lower intensity over a long period of time.  I think older people (like me) can train to do challenging things, it's just that the process is really slow compared to when you are younger.

Running training theories

On to the theories and standard approaches then.  A very basic and standard idea that comes up is an 80-20 approach, running relatively slowly, well within your conditioning limits, 80% of the time, and mixing in faster running for the rest.  This video goes into levels related to that, identified by heartrate, by a charismatic, "non-elite" runner (his characterization) and popular Youtuber nicknamed Kofuzi.  It's funny how he can run a sub-3 hour marathon--equivalent to four under-45 minute 10ks in a row--and still feels a need to qualify the intermediate level that places him within.  

Of course it's not nearly that simple, just "80-20," and there are competing versions of training theories and approaches.  One part that should be kept clear is that many of these approaches are sophisticated and advanced practices that probably wouldn't be relevant for people without a sufficient training base (which of course I don't have, or at most am only now approaching; in six months to a year I maybe could be ready for more serious training).

Back to training approaches; another common theme is low heartrate training, moving further towards reducing intensity.  The idea is that it's possible to add considerable training volume (mileage) if you just moderate experienced heart rate to a lower level than many people training for races might intuitively take up (see that earlier video reference for a range for that, or a lot more detail in this one, Floris Gierman of the Extramilest Youtube channel).  On the positive side per many accounts this seems to work, and it's a natural fit for people new to ramping up training routines, from taking no formal approach to including more of that.  It's not framed as a beginner practice though; it's said to work for advanced, previously conditioned runners as well, an approach that people might have good results from as an intermediate.

Per that account I've linked to only after reaching a plateau of conditioning "gains," which could take quite awhile depending on history and training volume, are faster runs and higher heart rate running re-introduced.  That's also covered in detail in a first person account here by Gareth King, there interviewed on that Extramilest Youtube channel.  He reduced his marathon time from 3 1/2 hours to 2 1/2; pretty impressive.  I'll probably never train to run that distance in the first place.  As I mentioned recovery times are slower at my age, and I'm surely not going on hormone replacement or taking drugs just to post daily training results and race times on Instagram and Facebook.

In one last example of training theory (not last in the sense of this is all there is, since it keeps going, just the last I'll mention) Jeff Cunningham covers "the five pillars of distance training" on the Nick Bair podcast.  A lot of that overlaps with what I've already mentioned, adding more about recovery and other themes, especially related to other levels of varying intensity training between "light and heavy." That's not just about shorter distance speed work, but about sustained training tied to varying heart rates, oxygen capacity levels, and in relation to lactic acid removal threshold.  It's good stuff.  Too advanced for me to do much with, but still interesting.  Jeff mentioned in deciding if Nick would be suitable for training that his prior marathon experience, dedication, high weekly mileage capacity, and ability to run a 5 minute mile all factored in as positives.  Right...

The continually recurring theme of capturing biometric and running results data in all those references sounds interesting and also negative to me.  As an engineer--industrial, but they all kind of apply--I like functional stats and data as much as the next person, but for undergoing human experience I don't necessarily want to try to "hack" my exercise responses, or any part of my life experience.  Maybe someone could see fasting as that, but I don't.

As I'm able to run more I'll improve in conditioning, and I can run slower and faster, varying distance and theme outings, without adding any theory at all.  I'm more concerned about injury, or dropping dead, the big injury.  I'm not even sure when I'll get around to running any kind of race, or what I could run for a decent 10k time right now.  Under an hour, for sure; I just ran that as moderate intensity training.  I'd add in more speed work to drop that current 9 1/2 minute comfortable mile time range, but since I'm already pushing it recently for increasing both frequency and distance I'll get to it when I get to it.

Conclusions

What's the take-away from all this?  Running is a cool experience, after you move past hating it on to craving it.  There is as much theory as you would ever want to learn about, ten times as much, and it's kind of practical to put it in practice just by going out and running, a fairly natural activity, after some initial acclimation.

Then of course people have to go and make it weird by adding countless levels of things to buy, not just shoes and high performance biometric tracking watches, but also special clothes and socks, nutrient gels, electrolytes, recovery gear (foam rollers, and the next 100 inventions), yet more biometric tracking stuff, knee braces, exercise bands, and it just keeps going.  God forbid you might go out and run in an ordinary cotton t-shirt (which I do, in 90+ degree tropical weather; it's nice after it seems more normal).  Then beyond the Insta and FB posts people join running clubs, attend races, join social media discussion groups, anything at all that can promote that identity for others to appreciate.

So it goes, the information age.  I write here; I'm not completely different.  And I've watched a bit of a shoe review channel with an associated podcast that I like, Believe in the Run.  Those content creators are personable, and bring the ideas to life in engaging discussion, as Kofuzi also does.  As someone progresses in training they would probably learn from content that is more and more applicable to them, which I'm not really onto yet, it's as much for entertainment.  

There are countless shoe review channels, and plenty that offer lots of tips on running, how to optimize breathing, change stride or other mechanics, on through range you'd never even consider.  It's interesting watching videos about how famous and accomplished runners train, even though it's probably better to not see that as practical input.

Now that I think of it two people I knew were into that ultra-marathon theme way before it ever became popular, in the early 90s, both running the local Leadville 100 (miles, of course).  Somehow they did that while the internet was in its infancy, never mind contemporary social media, which didn't exist yet.  As I recall they just ran a lot to train.  I remember one telling me that he would drink a beer or two while running that, because he desperately needed calories but it became disgusting just drinking sugary drinks, Gatorade and whatever else.  He said that the alcohol would just metabolize right out.  Too bad that he couldn't buy the for-purpose gel tubes people eat now.

As for advice to others who want to start, but aren't sure how, that's the easy part:  walk before you run.  Literally; spend 45 minutes walking a few times a week and once that's quite comfortable get some ok shoes and check out jogging.  I'm not sure if it made any sense but I wanted to experience the mechanics of jogging at moderate speed early on, instead of slowly, to continue with that later, so I was running somewhere around a 10 minute mile pace from the start, stopping to walk as often as I needed to in order to keep it up.  Roughly; I wasn't timing that, so maybe it was 12, and just felt faster to me.  

I don't think that works as advice for a good approach, but the idea of making it your own still might.  It might work to run at a faster pace you want to get to later and walk often enough to make that comfortable, and then do other runs at a slow pace, so you can experience those running mechanics part of the time, and actually build up a cardio base the rest.

If you push it for intensity, duration, or frequency an injury will let you know when you've exceeded your limits, and it's nicer to not experience much of that.  I had a knee problem right when the pandemic hit, a bit over a year into running, so right when half of Bangkok took up running I took six weeks off, letting my knee recover on its own.  Pairing running with plenty of stretching, yoga, light weight training, or swimming might help with avoiding that.  Or just run slow, and not far, taking breaks to walk some; that would work.  

Past a certain point it's addictive, and then it's on to managing not ramping it up too fast again, but in a different form.  People would probably break in one of two main directions related to placing the social aspects, joining a running group or else avoiding that, but to an extent that part doesn't matter, taking up secondary aspects or connections that are either appealing or not.  Experiencing races might be nice; eventually I'll get to that.

Geothermal heated near-Arctic Alaskan tea production

Jenny and her team in that space, second from left (all photos provided by her)

Jenny Tse grows tea at 64 degrees North, about 100 miles from the Arctic Circle, outside Fairbanks, Alaska.  It's by far the furthest North tea has probably ever been grown, or maybe will ever be grown.  A feasibility study on growing tea in Scotland raises a couple of context issues that I'll address further here, which helps place that:

...While Scotland is the furthest point from the equator that tea has yet been grown commercially (Forfar is at latitude 57° north), the evidence is in the ground and on retailers’ shelves that it can be grown here. The big questions are whether it can be grown here commercially for profit - and if so – how?

What Jenny is doing doesn't change the accuracy of that; it's a still-limited experiment in growing tea plants in controlled greenhouse conditions (a building she calls a high tunnel, really), part of an existing resort's geothermal-heated food production garden, also supported by geothermal power generation systems.  So it's completely sustainable!  The "commercial for profit" part might develop further later on.

That's at the Chena Hotsprings Resort, which this doesn't cover in as much detail as it might, since the basis for this writing is to communicate one discussion's worth of input from Jenny.  It's odd that Chena resort's site doesn't even mention geothermal power generation, or growing plants there for food, even in the winter.  They do all that; of course Google search results adds lots more about it, or a Facebook page at least has photos of the resort and local environment.  It's also interesting that their resort's Trip Advisor rating is 3 1/2 stars out of 5, so quite positive, but they are still heavily criticized by a minority of the guests, related to all sorts of details; so that can go.  One guest's towel was stolen by someone; different things can come up.

A bit of an aside, early in this blog's run I researched tea being produced in North Korea, and supposedly tried some, provided by the same Chinese guide that brought Dennis Rodman there (but it can be hard to place claims about tea origins).  A quick search of references shows that to be more in the 37 degree North range, so a bit far up there, comparable to the upper border of North Carolina in the US, but nowhere near the Scotland based growing range, never mind Fairbanks, Alaska.

My first thought was how could that even be a remotely practical commercial venture, and what must it cost to set up and maintain that.  Very little, really, because that resort is a supporting partner, so the entire contributed infrastructure includes part of one of the four building growing areas already there, an existing heating and environment maintenance system, geothermal power to keep the tea plants warm, and geothermal based power supply for lighting.  Everything but the plants, basically.  

It's a fantastic venture, hopefully one that can be managed to produce some quantity of exceptional tea, and get that resort the broader recognition it deserves for setting all that up.  Coincidentally my parents have visited there before, and said that it's absolutely amazing.  They had a heat-pump system in their house earlier on, extracting home heat from spring water, so that general geothermal energy subject was of particular interest to them.

The Chena resort's main purpose related to setting up winter growing environments is to provide food for resort guests and staff.  The power generation part may have been completed in part just because it's possible, beyond the obvious commercial justification, that the numbers add up, that it works out to be lower in cost than using generators for off-grid remote power supply.  Jenny said that the resort owner was involved with creating the Alaskan pipeline, and is currently undertaking a second geothermal power generation project somewhere in the Aluetian islands, so for sure there is as complex and compelling a story about all that infrastructure development as relates to the tea themes.  Maybe I'll look into that later.

To speed this along I'll switch over to a Q & A summary format.

Just how cold does it get there?  Down to -50 or 60 F in the winter, or -50 C at the coldest, way too cold for any plants not evolved to go completely dormant in that kind of environment, to endure a very hard freeze, which tea plants can't survive.  The "high tunnel" environment uses two plastic layers (that are translucent, allowing for some external light contact), using an interior air space as effective insulation.

another look at that space before all the plants were in

How does the geothermal heating work?  Hot water from a moderately hot version of hot springs (not like Yellowstone, where plenty of the pools are boiling) is pumped through pipes in the ground to maintain ground temperature.  The plants are growing in the ground, not located in pots.  Piping within the structure also heats the air, moderated by thermostat systems.  It doesn't sound so different than baseboard hot water heating, commonly used in some US homes, just based on a different heat source, with more sophisticated control demands, requiring flow moderation to maintain a desired temperature range.

Isn't humidity level also a concern?  Sure, of course.  The resort has built pond-foggers to increase humidity (so a type of humidifier), similar to what is used in mushroom growing environments.

Can the tea thrive in the natural environment in the summer?  Yes, it does.  The very long light daytime period doesn't seem to negatively affect the tea plants, and the local environment climate range is quite suitable.  There is more of a concern related to cool period dormancy requirements for the plants, that they "expect" some form of cooler time period related to cooler season exposure to support a natural rest cycle.  Adjusting to support or optimize that is an ongoing work in progress, coordinated along with resort facilities staff.  It's a conditions parameter that the same building is also used to grow vegetables, so the goal is to maintain an environment that all the types of plants growing there can thrive in.

Have you produced any finished tea yet?  There aren't so many plants growing now, only 40, and the venture only started in 2021, less than two years ago, so actual production has been very limited, but they did make small test batches.  The tea turned out very well.  Of course dialing in optimum processing takes practice, and a limited withering time to soften the leaves caused the tea to break up during processing early on, but the modified version of green tea produced was very pleasant, very smooth and flavorful.  Jenny thinks that the high mineral content from using water from the hot springs might help give the tea a unique and pleasant character, based on it seeming distinctive.

Plant types (sourced from the Camforest nursery, in South Carolina) include Sochi Russian versions and other Chinese varieties, so a mix of types.

a better look at the plants

What are the main problems that you've encountered?  Shipping the plants that far was a concern; they needed to be flown the last routing step to limit how long they needed to go without water.  Sorting out all the details was a concern, but especially inconsistencies related to temperature variation in different parts of the growing space.  It's not as if the facilities aren't under good control, but matching conditions in relation to other plant types requirements has been an ongoing challenge.  Just learning tea plant type reactions to growing conditions inputs involves a learning curve.

Are there plans to ramp up production, to explore turning this into more of a commercial venture, instead of an experiment?  That depends on coordination with the resort partner, that owner, and for now limited space has been allocated.  It may work to increase scale, as proof of concept develops further.  Based on early trials the tea could be exceptional, and good quality, positive aspects, and novelty could enable sales at the higher end of market range.  Building an additional high tunnel growing area might require too much investment, but over time that higher volume scale could develop organically, in ways that are hard to foresee well ahead of time.

If someone wanted to visit to see Northern Lights (a different subject), when would be a good time to visit?  February or March is considered a good time, or in the late fall.  They can be seen in the peak winter period, Dec-Jan, but it's quite cold then, and the "polar night" effect causes darkness most of the day.  There is currently an ice sculpture contest as a main tourism attraction going on (the World Ice Art Championships).  The day that we spoke (Feb. 18) temperatures were up to 8 F during the day, and down to -16 F at night.  That's bitter cold, for someone living in the tropics now, but not all that bad for them.  For me growing up in the Northern US East Coast, and later living in Colorado, it's familiar range, if a bit cool.  

Further off topic, my family visited the edge of the Arctic in Murmansk, Russia, to see the Northern lights, right at the winter solstice, at the very end of the year.  It was down to -27 C then, if I remember right, -17 F, but their temperatures are moderated by "warm" air coming off the sea there (warm in a loose sense; warm for that far north).  The polar night effect was really cool, for being there for a short week of time frame.  Jenny said that Northern Lights aren't best viewed the furthest north, as one might imagine, that there is a band slightly further south where the effect is even stronger, presumably related to how the magnetic field works out (my guess; she didn't get into that part).  

a dogsled camp outing on that Murmansk trip, in mid-afternoon

When I saw the Northern Lights I was a little disappointed that they appeared almost completely black and white, since at very low light levels our eyes can't see color (the rods and cones theme), but Jenny said that the brighter displays actually look green.  A camera can always see the true color, so in our case it was a little odd not seeing them as it did.

I want to thank Jenny for being so open and clear about all those details.   Near Arctic sustainable tea production, using geothermal heating and power generation, is an interesting subject on a few different levels.  I wish them the best related to pushing further with development, to expanding and scaling up production, and dialing in all the levels of inputs.  

Jenny's tea vending business page includes more on her background, and a Youtube channel includes more tea background videos, and podcast style content.  A recent version with Nicole of Tea For Me Please was nice to watch; they're both personable, and that was a good match for their well-informed perspectives filling in a range of tea themes.  Or Sipping Streams Tea has Instagram and Facebook profiles, but those are more about their tea business, not focused on this geothermal production subject.

Wawee Tea Thai-Yunnan's Hero series 2014 sheng

 

More about Wawee Tea sheng; this theme is starting to repeat.  I bought some after that friend in Chiang Mai sent samples, and they sent me a sample of another older 2014 version along with the 2021 sheng that I bought (which I've not written about; the sample my friend gave me should be either quite similar or else identical).

Thai teas are a favorite subject, and sheng is my favorite type, so I don't mind revisiting it and writing about it more or less weekly.  One of those weekly reviews was about a black tea (not by Wawee Tea) and a novel oolong version (by them), so that broke up the cycle.

I really wouldn't have expected this tea to still be available but in checking their website it seems to be:

Chinese:  Gu Su Cha 古树茶

Type:  Green Puerh Tea (Puerh Cake), listed for 2750 baht

Cultivar:  Assam Tea [that would mean Assamica, described as from 400 to 900 year old plants]

Origin:  Wawee Mountain, Chiangrai , Thailand

Harvest date:  2014/04/25

Storage Methods:  Sealed , Prevent moisture , Seal in a dry ambience and Clean.

Tea Master:  Pan Yongchang

I'm not certain that's the same tea; it could be a coincidence that they sold two versions from 2014, but it seems more likely it's a match.  Just because it shows up there doesn't mean that it's in-stock; they sell teas in different ways, and not updating a website page quickly would seem normal.

Let's break that down a little, just skipping the part about it being pu'er or not related to not being from Yunnan (I must've typed that out hundreds of times).  We can just set aside the 400 to 900 year old plants part; maybe some material was from older tea trees, and hopefully all of it was naturally forest grown, and that's good enough.  It's not that I don't trust them, I'm just not overly interested in stories, true ones or false ones.  That price is unusual, $80 for 9 year old tea; they should raise that, if it's as good as I already know it is, since I write the intro parts after the notes.

For storage:  sealed, really?  I take everything I read with a grain of salt, and don't know how to place that as likely to mean something in particular, or meaningful if the tea really was very well sealed.  It wasn't all that fermented for being 9 years old; maybe they're not kidding about that part.  And character seemed a little unusual, which I took to probably relate to an atypical starting point set of aspects, but who knows.

The tea is good, the main thing.  It's not nearly as far along in fermentation as something I'd have kept around here in Bangkok for 9 years, but lots of places in Thailand aren't as oppressively hot and humid, so that doesn't mean anything in particular to me.  On with description.

Later edit:  I asked the producer if this was the same as the site listing, and it is.  Actual pricing is currently at 3050 baht, so around $90 instead of $80, a fairly standard 10% annual price increase, with 3 or 4 percent of that just relating to inflation, to money being worth less every year.  More on the background:

This tea was produced in the spring of 2014 and the tea cake was pressed for sale in 2015.

We named Thai-Yunnan's ​Hero​ series to commemorate the bravery and sacrifice of the soldiers in the 93rd Brigade.  In the past, our tea factory used to be a residence for soldiers in the 93rd Brigade before going to Taiwan.

That's not familiar, but it all makes sense.

Review 

first infusion:  a little light, not completely started yet, but a couple of early notes are interesting.  This has a nice resinous edge to it, both the feel and a flavor reminiscent of how pine sap smells.  Tone range is on the warm side.  Depth is not going to be an issue for this tea.  It's funny how a rich feel develops so early on, while the flavor profile is still filling in from the tea not being completely wetted yet.

even more intense than it looks

second infusion:  I went a little longer than usual to get this more fully wetted, and infusion will be a little inconsistent while it gets started.  Compression level is on the high-medium side, which should slow aging slightly, and get brewing off to a slower start.

This is a little strong, but the slightly long soak will make it easier to get a consistent round next time.  A pine-like edge is strong, brewed this way.  There are complex layers beyond that, which will be easier to list out brewed lighter.  A flavor that seems to connect to the sweetness is really nice, towards molasses, in the range of complex warm tones.

third infusion:  there it is, becoming more dialed in.  Related to bitterness there is still some, that didn't drop out related to transition yet, but the level is moderate.  It integrates well with the pine resin and warm tones.  What I was interpreting as molasses like sweetness is a bit towards a malt, not the Assam malt, like malted milk ball malt, or the version in milkshakes.  Beyond that I think floral range is filling in complexity, but it doesn't stand out as much as the rest, it's more of a background or base.  

I've tried teas that were only 3 or 4 years old that were aged / fermented to a comparable level; I think higher than average compression level and probably also moderate humidity and temperature input kept this transition at a moderate pace, which is fine, that can kind of be better in a sense.  Heavier and rougher tones are avoided that way, a basement smell, or towards-peat earthiness.  This is clean in effect, and overall balance is good, with plenty of complexity and intensity.

fourth infusion:  warm tones shift this round, a pine edge changes to resemble dark wood towards aged furniture a bit more.  It's all a bit subtle, as a change that is occurring, but it seems like both dried fruit and spice are picking up.  The fruit range is close to dried Chinese date, jujube, and the spice tone is within the range of warm incense spices that I'm not so good about identifying.  

I'm feeling this tea already, a heady sort of light buzz and relaxing body feel, even though I had breakfast not long before partly to offset that.  I get it that many people love drug-like effects from sheng but I don't try to maximize that.

fifth infusion:  really interesting, for how much this is transitioning.  A general warm tone level stays the same but the parts going into that keep changing.  I suppose it's not so different in terms of description from the last round but it has shifted slightly.  Feel is really pronounced, resinous, full but with just a touch of dryness.  Aftertaste effect really lingers.  For as much intensity as this possesses, and the aspect range it covers, I think this would be really good in another 9 more years, once it had time to move through more of the rest of an aging cycle.  

It's fine now, as a different kind of tea experience, but I could see someone interpreting this as in between profiles that they like, not the partly softened 3 to 4 year old sheng range, and not yet fully switched over to warmer and deeper tones, kind of half and half.  I find it pleasant like this though.

Drinking water after that round tasted very sweet, as if it was a light stevia infusion.  Is that effect familiar?  There is a certain bitterness aftertaste range, I guess that people would often associate with hui gan, only partially translated as "returning sweetness," that causes plain water to taste really sweet when you drink it after sheng.  I'll take a break and do a few things and then add notes on a couple more rounds; this feel effect is a bit much to keep going.

sixth infusion:  this had included plenty of warm tones before but an actual woodiness is increasing, along the lines of sawdust pile or barnwood.  For taking a break that tea must have cooled, so the next infusion will make for a truer test, with the leaves starting brewing already warmed.

a couple rounds later, leaf color showing fermentation level 

seventh infusion:  that did change a lot, perhaps related to the brewing temperature going back to normal (hotter).  A pine edge stands out again.  I let that brew for over 10 seconds, on the long side for this proportion, round, and tea intensity level, and it probably would be back to more optimum under 10 again.  Heavier earthy or woody flavors are ramping up, just in a different form than last round, leaning more towards earthy range.  

I could swear that I'm really feeling this tea again, after drinking just two more rounds.  It would make sense to go with a much lower proportion to actually make it further through a round.  I picked a chunk from a sample set of chunks, and brewed that, which is even further into guesswork from my normal approach.  It looked like plenty, and it was.

taking a couple back out might've occurred to me, but overdoing it is habit

eight infusion:  it's nice, sweet, pleasantly viscous, with interesting and complex flavor range, and loads of intensity.  I'm not saying much about bitterness here because that input just seems moderate to me, but without acclimation to that as an input this might come across as harsh.  As far as a flavor list goes the set I keep describing just keeps shifting in balance, the pine resin edge, warmer earthy and woody tones, dried Chinese date / jujube fruit, underlying warm floral base tones, and some degree of light and sweet malt and warm aromatic spice tone.  There's a lot going on.  

Some of that pine resin / woody / now a bit towards earth flavor aspect lingers quite a bit in the aftertaste, along with a full, slightly dry feel, astringent in an unusual way.  For people who mostly love sweet, floral, aromatic, almost citrusy newer sheng, or else faded to warm, deep, softer, and subtle but complex flavored aged sheng this might not work very well.  Moderately aged sheng can be an odd range (or not yet aged, depends on how one parses out those concepts).  Someone else just mentioned that they also like sheng kind of in the middle in a Gong Fu Cha group discussion, even related to drier storage conditions, and if they meant they love the high intensity then this might work for them.  Versions that are sweeter, fragrant, and approachable early on are something else altogether; this must have been quite intense when younger.

Conclusions

This just wouldn't start fading in intensity, even after a number of additional rounds.  This is some intense tea.  A part I didn't get to later in the Wawee Tea site description sums up my impression well, once you read past the translation:

Note: can brew 15 - 20 water, able to develop itself from raw tea to ripe tea The older it is, the better it tastes.

It would've been more conventional to brew 2/3rds or half as much material as I did, and not lengthen infusion times at all, and this would still surely brew at least 15 rounds, under more normal parameters.  And it has plenty of aging potential.

They mentioned a sweetness tied to bitterness, which I've only read in this description in the final editing process, and also had expressed in the notes.  It's almost odd they didn't mention the feel effect, a solid body buzz and head effect combined. 

I'm not sure it came across clearly how much I liked this, what an objective quality assessment of it is, and how I place that style.  I can definitely appreciate half-aged sheng, and this is an interesting and pleasant version of that, so I really liked it.  I think even in 3 or 4 years this tea's character will make a lot more sense, that it could switch to a very young version of an aged tea instead of being so "right in the middle."  It's quite good, I think, related to the style that it is, so much so that the pricing is unusual.

The heaviness of pine edge may mean more to others than it did to me.  I suspect that it's at an unusual phase of transition, and it was much rougher a few years ago, intense in a less approachable way, and in a few more years it will be different again.  Jing Mai area sheng can have a quite pronounced pine flavor note, but I don't remember it coming up in Thai teas, not that I'm well-versed in styles and versions from 9 years ago.  

This material was a little broken, and that can change a lot, in terms of flavor set and feel.  Maybe that partly related to tearing up more than average compression level chunks, where newer style versions are often slightly looser.  This particular chunk was at the edge of the beeng-hole, so maybe it's not the most fair representation, more compressed than the rest, and I could've factored that in and picked a different piece.

I suppose it would have been possible to brew this like a dragonball instead, taking the first 3 or 4 infusions to mess around with one 5 to 7 gram chunk, working it apart while partly infused.  It's at least conceivable that maybe air contact was very limited, that it was more or less sealed, and that changed fermentation effect to an unfamiliar form, instead of compression level, or that relating to a starting point character input.  I guess I could ask Hojo about that, how sealing the tea affects sheng aging.  I would guess that this had enough air to ferment normally, that character just relates to where it is in a transition cycle.

judging from the Wawee Tea website image breaking it up may have broken the leaves

All in all I really liked it.  This would be a fantastic tea to buy with the intention of trying it once a year for the next half dozen years, and really having something novel then.  You might think "just 5 more" at that point, and then extreme patience would come into play.  Or it's interesting now, and some people would drink this just for the drug-like effect, never mind how much they love or are ambivalent about the rest.  If I wasn't about to move to an expensive place to live, and hadn't just spent some money on tea and a new pair of running shoes, I'd probably try to buy this.  Never mind; according to my wife I already have enough tea to drink for years, and I really love newish Thai sheng, and I just bought a cake's worth of that from them, so I'll be happy drinking that for awhile.  

For others feeling left out because vendors charge you $1 a gram if the word gushu is mentioned, which may or may not relate to a true story and experienced aspects, I've already spoken about as plainly as I'm going to.  If someone hates pine flavor in sheng and would intend to drink it soon then that's that, but even related to that part I'm not sure to what extent that will stick around through further aging.  I would guess that dryness of feel is from the same thing, just where it is right now, not how it's going to stay.

Acclimating to sheng pu'er preference, to bitterness and astringency

 

one of the last sheng versions I've reviewed, but a tea from Thailand

Another Reddit post raised an interesting subject, asking why someone seemed to not like sheng pu'er, when it's regarded so positively by so many tea enthusiasts.  They framed that as asking "Is it possible that I just don't like raw pu'er tea in general?"  My comment there:

Sure, you don't like it. I didn't like it for a long time, many years, and after continually revisiting it I eventually started to explore it more, and it's been the main type I drink for the last 4 years or so. There are parts to that; I can describe them.

Acclimation to bitterness is the main factor. I hated it for a long time; it just tasted like taking an aspirin, and then eventually I was more open to it, and now it's a pleasant part of what is normal to me. It seems similar to how people don't love beer at first, or coffee, then later they tend to, unless they stop trying those, which would also make plenty of sense. I own and drink aged sheng, and own a half dozen cakes from 15-20 years old, but I mostly drink young (new) versions, often made within the last year, or beyond that of differing ages, and a good bit in between, 8-10 years old. It's all quite bitter and astringent, relative to other types, but just normal for me now. Oddly I'm more open to sourness now too, which doesn't come up much in sheng pu'er, so that's a different story.

Another part is that people often start on random sheng, so they're drinking factory versions, which are generally fairly low in quality and made of chopped up material. There wouldn't be awareness of how long versions (types) are typically aged. A Xiagun tuocha is generally challenging material, both bitter and astringent, not even close to ready to drink after a decade of aging, but a higher quality, more whole leaf, natural environment grown Yiwu or Jing Mai origin version is generally pleasant enough right away, and mellowed beyond that 2 to 4 years into aging. Storage conditions change fermentation level and that timing quite a bit; dry area or controlled environment storage can make an 8 - 10 year old tea seem equivalent to one aged for that shorter 3 to 4 year time frame in a wetter and hotter place (partly true Taiwan or Hong Kong, but it's even more exaggerated in places like Malaysia or Thailand).

Optimum brewing approaches vary by tea type, and I personally find that Western brewing isn't very suitable for sheng, and prefer high proportion and short infusion time gongfu brewing. That's not necessarily universal, maybe except that the part about approaches being adjusted for tea type is more broadly applicable. Once you really lean into bitterness preference and can tolerate a range of intensities brewing using a broader range of ways may seem positive.

Should someone develop a liking for sheng; is there a compelling reason for moving through an exploration and acclimation curve? Maybe, maybe not. It's more intense, complex, and varied than other tea types, especially since aging transition makes every tea version seem different year to year. People into sheng find the flavor ranges more appealing. But then that's not so different than for any other type. I get it why people see pu'er enthusiasts as somewhat elitist, in general, because it is a main theme that comes up. Then to me it's odd linking your own tea preference to some sort of subculture / group personality type, in any way. Group associations can be a funny thing, developing organically in different ways.

The consensus there was that it's fine to not like any given tea type, which of course works.  Then people had trouble placing why others might like a tea type that actually tastes bad to them, not just falling outside their main preference, how the acclimation process I just covered works out.

Just to add a little on the comment related to sourness, that is a more uncommon flavor inclusion in tea range, and it often relates to poor processing resulting in a flaw.  Not always though.  A fermented tea version like Japanese goishicha can be a little sour, related to normal aspect range for the type.  Atypical plant types can seem to cause this in sheng pu'er, as in the case of a purple varietal version I bought awhile back, or a local Thai wild plant version (which may not have been all Camellia Sinensis variety Assamica; who knows).  I'm more open to sourness now than years ago, but wouldn't want to drink versions with pronounced sourness too often.

that purple leaf varietal brick; it does look a little unusual

It has been interesting hearing about others experiencing the same type of acclimation that I'm describing.  An online contact is an oolong specialist and vendor, and she always claimed that she didn't care for the "energy" from pu'er, but eventually she did acclimate to drinking it, and sold it.  I guess a commercial driver comes into play for that.

A respected earlier time period tea enthusiast discussed how sheng pu'er was popular 20 years ago partly because it was inexpensive, so a lot of the image around it has changed completely, almost the opposite of what it had been.  The greater demand of the "pu'er bubble" changed everything, when buying that tea type and holding it as an investment changed things, around the 2005 time-frame.

New styles changed things again, as factory tea versions gave way in popularity to milder, more whole leaf, often natural environment grown, higher quality "boutique" versions, which come in a broad range of forms now.  Thai, Laos, and Vietnamese versions made in these newer, more approachable styles probably almost didn't exist a decade ago, and production volume of any South East Asian sheng pu'er (or pu'er-like tea, depending on one's acceptance of the Chinese regional designation of the type name) was quite limited, even that recently.

My most recent post describes a main step in my own acclimation process, getting exploration wrong, as it worked out, related to a role that good input plays in that path:

In one of my first exposures to differing tea types a local Chinese-Thai woman was selling sheng pu'er...  About 10 years ago I bought a cake of modestly priced "young" or new factory sheng at that shop to drink, to explore and acclimate to the type...  It was probably roughly as poor a choice as I could've made, quite harsh without significant aging input.  Still, it worked out; I acclimated to bitterness, some, and went on to explore oolongs more, returning to sheng exposure and preference some years later...

If back then I had bought any of the current Wawee origin area Thai teas I've been drinking several versions of over the last year that probably would've went quite differently.  Those tend to be less bitter, softer in feel character, sweeter, more aromatic, with pleasant floral and fruit tones.  Yunnan Sourcing--or lots of outlets now, really--sells better quality in-house versions in a broader range now, many a bit more traditional in style than what I've been trying from Thailand and Vietnam over the past few months.  Those are still not as challenging as factory versions made in the earlier conventional style, which is still fine, they just need significant age to soften some rough edges, per my preference.

Tea culture appreciation versus appropriation

 

I just caught an earlier discussion between So Han Fan and Riu Liu on this subject, which was quite interesting.  It wasn't what I expected; much more developed and refined, and very insightful, just great really.  One would expect this kind of discussion to never move far off saying that white people new to tea aren't well-trained enough or "Chinese enough" to have a developed opinion worth listening to about Chinese cultural aspects, and that was part of it, but it kept going from there, uncovering layers of how all that really maps out.

I won't be able to summarize everything they said; it covered too much ground.  People should watch that instead of reading this, if it came down to choosing; just put it on 1.25 speed if nearly two hours seems like too much, and listen to it while you're doing something else.  

As far as further commentary here goes let's take it bit by bit, point by point, without ever trying to tackle the grand scope in one go.

white people new to tea aren't well enough informed or Chinese enough to have a developed opinion worth listening to:  this was never expressed or addressed directly, at least in clear detail related to fully unpacking this, but it definitely was a sub-theme that factored in early on.  Both speakers, So Han and Riu, touched on examples of how this really did manifest in real life problems they've experienced personally, and that worked, probably better than a regressive development of ideas, exploring layer after layer of context and assumptions.  

In some of those cases people really did cross over from appreciating Chinese culture (positively engaging with it), exploring it, into taking it on as their own, and using it for personal gain and profit, while promoting overly summarized and partly incorrect ideas.  Without clear examples the nuances of what really happened wouldn't have shown through, and how complex inputs come together.

To back up quite a bit, this already assumes that there is a traditional, unified, accepted, authority based, accurate version of traditional Chinese culture, or strands of that, sets of ideas and practices.  Does this work?  Yes and no, probably.  But then it would really take the nearly two hours to develop only this point.  It's something I've been considering a lot for many years, in the most recent form repeatedly discussing this with a friend who is exploring Chinese tea culture as a research anthropologist, in China, Taiwan, and the US, with only early research and summary academic publication related to China completed.  That anthropologist friend looks for "schools," training organizations, or "masters," and for looking for that kind of thing he is able to find it. So Han and Riu both explicitly covered how it doesn't occur in the form one might expect, as a Westerner, related to exactly that context, which I'll get back to.  

So where does this leave us, setting this aside, if we can't fully unpack this dimension?  It's a little awkward, because it's not clear how we can specify the contrast with a Chinese person who is a part of an original culture, who can speak for that perspective, without clarifying to what extent a unified historical culture even exists.  

Different levels and factors enter in, related to the second part about someone being a suitable representative, brought up by both speakers:  someone being racially Chinese, part of a Chinese culture (foreign or in China, which is different), speaking Chinese languages, exposed to a strand of the tradition ("study under a master" and such), with background engaging with tea producers, vending experience (both a pro and a con, as I see it), and so on.  

Indirectly So Han ends up justifying his position as "Chinese enough" based on family history, race related genetics, language proficiency, visits to China, and contact with producers.  That's Chinese enough, probably, but someone else could try to move the goalposts and demand exposure to some other background or training of some sort, or claim that the sourcing exposure was actually very limited.  Let's set that aside.

tea producers as a reference:  one of So Han's examples is clear and easy to consider, about producers identifying types of tea, with this serving as a more distinct and accurate identifier of type than Western oriented categories.  This gets a little odd; he was saying that a partially oxidized green tea was identified as a green tea by the producer, so it is that, even if Westerners see it as some sort of exception, or not in that category.  It's hard to say if that authority justification would work in every case, but there's something to it.  Then Riu started in on saying that organization of categories and use of concepts might be slightly different within different cultures, which they both developed further, and I'd like to add more on here.

A friend who produces oolong in China once almost apologetically offered that they don't really use the category of oolong (/ wulong) there, and just call tea versions by the name of what they are, per individual plant type input.  The same kind of divide has came up related to saying whether sheng pu'er is a version of hei cha.  A driver for it needing to either be that, or to not be, relates to the familiar initiative for Westerners to put every tea into one of a limited set of main categories (green, black (/ red), oolong, white, hei cha, yellow).  

Per seemingly good input from people familiar with local Chinese perspective sheng pu'er is just sheng pu'er, and hei cha is something else, and they don't need to force that complete division into main groups to work out.  Surely some people in China would want the groups to stick, and they would have their own opinion, but in general it may well just not be a typical Chinese project.  Other examples So Han and Riu covered reinforced that.

Buddhists and Taoists have lineages, but not tea cultures:  a great point by So Han.  I'm not sure this is right, since the "master" and "schools" themes come up in China and Taiwan too, but I agree with and love the point he's making, that tea culture is a living, diverse, locally oriented theme in China instead, not at all unified and codified as religions are.  This single point I keep returning to in discussion with that anthropologist friend, how it may not be valid for some people in China to try to fix, package, and essentially sell one version of Chinese tea culture, regardless of what credentials they can collect together or justify.  Riu mentioned her own experience studying under a "master" (I don't love that term, but it must apply in some cases).  I can't do justice to summarizing that, and would make it less accurate by trying to, so people should check it out there instead (around 53:30, with So Han introducing the set of ideas there first).

To be clear I'm not the right person to try and place those claims of people being masters, with lineages, tied to training classes and certifications, etc., in both China and Taiwan.  Even relatively unified or standard approaches to ceremonial Gong Fu Cha brewing I'm just not familiar with.  Oddly a main stepping stone in exploring tea was a ceremonial brewing demonstration, held at a Huawei product display site on a visit to Shenzhen a decade ago for an IT project, so it's not as if I've never seen any versions of it.

Was that an example of cultural exploitation on their part?  I don't see it that way, but an argument could be made for that, depending on what was presented there, and how it was framed.

how does all this relate to Buddhism scope?:  it's a bit of a tangent but I did study Buddhism for quite awhile, on my own and in academic scope, and was ordained as a Thai Buddhist monk at one point (only for a bit over two months, which is normal in their tradition), and have lived in a Thai Buddhist family for the last 15 years.  So how do these parallel themes overlap or differ; would it be ok for a Westerner to have the same kind of exposure that I've had, or a few years' worth instead of 30, and to position themselves as some sort of teacher, or cultural authority?  Of course not.  Even if a respected member of that tradition officially sanctioned it that would still seem sketchy, especially if it was for-profit.

To be clear it's fine to comment on Buddhist themes in online discussions, for anyone, even with very limited exposure.  There's no reason why someone couldn't answer Quora questions, comment on Buddhism group threads, write a blog, or post videos to Youtube.  It would be best if they clarified their level and type of exposure, but that's up to them.  Selling anything drawing on their own authority in relation to Buddhism, or promoting themselves as a teacher or representative, even without a commercial angle, would be a step too far.  Wearing robes and such would be context dependent, if that would make sense or not, but in general a little would go a long way in terms of adding on such trappings.  It would be as well to not do that, but of course anyone can if they want to.

It's not as if there is a fixed timing or exposure level after which changing a role would make sense, but anyone participating for a few years in such a tradition and then making it their own, taking on the role of teacher and passing on adjusted ideas, would seem to be acting in bad faith, or at least poor judgement.  Tea vendors just selling tea don't parallel this context concern at all, but a little goes a long way related to re-packaging Gong Fu ceremonial or aesthetic practices.  If that kind of thing is offered as something they've taken up as a derived and adjusted individual practice, versus a direct continuation of an older tradition, that changes things a little.  Training certificates make for a strange scope; I'll stop short of getting into that part.

why do Westerners need to apply the Chinese cultural context framework?:  this is more a tangent here than coverage or response to what they said, my thoughts on how this tends to go.  It seems like people don't need for their tea experience to follow a traditional Chinese form, right, they could just drink tea?  A couple of natural exceptions to that come to mind.

Plenty of Western tea enthusiasts love both the experience of drinking tea, the taste, getting brewing right, learning types, etc., and also the formal, ceremonial, and aesthetic forms and aspects.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  Collecting teaware is fine, or setting up a room in a Chinese decoration theme, adopting a formal way of brewing drawn from some external source, even going further and investigating Taoism, and so on.  Once someone starts wearing traditional Chinese clothing it all gets a little strange, because why, and what imagery is being borrowed?  Then it's hard to say where a natural dividing line should occur.  It's subjective.  

my friend Huyen's family appreciates traditional aesthetic range without making it strange

at least the goggles go a step beyond more original scope (credit Wikipedia Gong Fu cha page)

Still I have no problem with that, people adopting and adjusting foreign cultural traditions, but what if the person taking this up is a tea vendor?  Now we're on to that all being a marketing angle, which somehow seems worse.  

Two lines of concerns come up:  is that even ok for someone with limited exposure to these themes, and how would there ever be a line drawn as to when it's ok?  What if So Han was American born Chinese but he didn't speak the language, and hadn't visited China, and learned from text sources and discussions instead?  It's hard to say how that would be different.  Someone could visit China dozens of times and still not have relevant additional cultural input, even though that would tend to come up if they were interested.  Lots of people visit China once or twice and take up a mantle of being an expert, and I've been to China three times, and Hong Kong and Taiwan as many more, and I had limited exposure to tea themes.  Visiting producers changes things, but only a little.  Short visits are tourism, even if someone brings back some tea they bought from a producer.

It's hard to place how it would all be different if So Han was white, if his genetics were different.  Is it really more "his" for being Chinese?  In one sense yes, but in another maybe not.  If he grew up as a third generation Chinese American with almost no contact with that aspect of Chinese culture it would only be "his" in a very limited sense.  If someone else, who is white, somehow entered into close contact with a Chinese family or local culture over an extended time, along with a tea tradition, the genetics would seem to drop out as a most relevant factor.

A European tea vendor friend commented that he is in the no-win situation of cultural borrowing being expected of him, that if he hosts tastings with absolutely no reference to Gong Fu cha background it would be seen as problematic, as not fulfilling expectations.  Then no matter what he learns and incorporates of course it can't apply as a universal, valid, appropriate inclusion from Chinese culture, which is a very diverse thing on its own.  So what should he do?  Probably intention and framing is important, to address why he is including some components, what background he is drawing on, and what kinds of claims he isn't trying to make.  Then of course you can't add a disclaimer to every sentence; that kind of thing could only be an early framing point.

Finer points made in examples in the video:  I think this is worth touching on a little, especially since that Reddit discussion went there, without the clear benefit of someone having an informed perspective to review these points made.  Let's examine some:

American tea enthusiasts rejecting that shai hong is red (black) tea (a sun-dried variation of Dian Hong, Yunnan black tea):  that's crazy; what else would it be?

questioning if green tea can be partially oxidized:  this breaks down to how people use categories, and the Western project of making things fit in boxes doesn't map back to China (as So Han explained).  For the most part I think if a producer says a tea is green tea then it is, with that broad scope potentially varying more than one might expect.  That's a problem with awareness and perspective related to the negative judgment, but to a limited extent people are also just talking past each other.  There are many kinds of green tea made in China, in lots of regions, and it's quite reasonable that some of that scope is unfamiliar.  

This comes up a lot with sheng (pu'er-like tea) made in Southeast Asian countries either being oxidized a bit much (from a long wither, maybe?), heated too hot, so taking on some green tea characteristics, or seeming unfinished by not being heated enough, taking on an in-between-white character.  To me it's still sheng, but a stylistic variation, with aging potential likely impacted, more than there's a concern over any naming or type convention.  Call it whatever you want; that doesn't change what it is.

is yellow tea fermented or oxidized?:  I don't know, really, maybe both.  The person making the comment, interrupting a presentation with a correction, was clearly wrong on that level, so we could almost just stop there.  If a green tea stored wet and warm transitioned based on a chemical reaction involving enzymes and an input from oxygen then it oxidized; if bacteria or fungus was involved it fermented (as we commonly used the term; really food science uses two other terms for both these things), and it could be both.  

There was a time when an oxidation process was often translated as fermentation instead, and it could less than perfectly clear what role bacteria and fungus are playing in some processing.  But again it sort of doesn't matter, and communicating respectfully is more important than taking better and better guesses about such things.

claiming a lot of Chinese tea is at high risk of being contaminated:  I think So Han's explanation of why the context and framing of that perspective is absurd is worth considering.  Again that's the main point, the form and tone of exchanges, but this kind of claim or belief comes up over and over.  I've heard vendors based in China say the same thing (one Chinese and one European, that come to mind).  Was that because of awareness of real risks, due more to personal bias, or just marketing?  

Here in Thailand my wife buys into this bias a lot more than I do because of isolated cases, like people in China once putting melamine (plastic powder) in powdered milk, to increase protein test level results.  The way that played out in the example So Han shared was clearly way out of line, but it's not really only racism that fuels that concern, even though it is mostly that.  

On my first visit to China our local guide went on and on about how many foods are at risk of such problems, and he explained that a whole egg can be "faked," re-created from other ingredients.  I'm not so sure about that, but it's an interesting thought.  The tricky part about interpreting such comments is that it can become a joke to Chinese people to play up the absurdity of the more extreme rumors, so all that part could've definitely been a put-on.  Or urban rumors and myths enter in.  Then people drinking powdered plastic in powdered milk was real, and not necessarily only isolated instances, so the worst cases are definitely bad enough.

what about appropriation being an example of appreciation?:  this seemed to be covered from lots of different angles in the video, on different levels.  People taking up foreign culture based practices are fine, but communicating their own expertise and authority, and utilizing these for their own personal gain, is all typically a step too far.  Even if a good review and sorting process could extract a dozen or two individual aspects of the broad Chinese tea cultural landscape patching those together to serve as a functional "school" of sorts doesn't really work.

Setting aside vendors taking things a bit far atypical personal practices can seem a bit absurd, viewed in one way.  Lots of people wear natural fiber robes to drink tea out of beautiful hand-made teaware.  Per one take this is functionally ceremonial (it supports relaxation and meditation functions), and also aesthetically pleasing, or it could just seem odd to someone else, or related to a subculture that might be overly dependent on borrowing aspects from other cultures.

a NY Times article sums up a take on an LA subculture (photo credit and article)

a finer point about prior context of discrimination mattering:  So Han raised a good point about how all these ideas don't necessarily stand alone as a guide to what works and what doesn't related to borrowing from other cultures, because the context of how different cultures interact in the present matters.  If there was no racism against Asians, or negative stereotypes at play to work around, different forms of uptake could be regarded as more reasonable, because the broader context would be simpler, and less problematic.  On the negative side Chinese people can be regarded as potentially deceptive, an unfair stereotype since anyone can be like that, and I don't see that as necessarily being a broad cultural condition (even though my wife does tend to claim that "Indians are tricky," even after we've been mutual friends with several Indians, and I count even more as friends).  

This can be a little harder to place than it might seem at first.  Black people in the US experienced a fairly consistent and broad form of racism in the US in the 1950s and 60s, which unfortunately isn't completely resolved today, but discrimination against Asians in the US never took as consistent a form.  There are negative aspects to common Asian stereotypes, and the ongoing culture war surely has made racism worse instead of better, relating to plenty of examples of incidents, but it all varies a lot, and keeps changing.

what about Chinese people exploiting Chinese culture?:  tied to another less than fair or ideal stereotyping anyone with a certain nationality or "race's" genetics can also be granted freer reign to speak for broad traditions that they may or may not have a lot of exposure to, or the right type and degree of background.

In one of my first exposures to differing tea types a local Chinese-Thai woman was selling sheng pu'er.  Looking back what she communicated about tea was quite limited, over the course of a number of visits (her shop was close to where I worked), a bit odd given how that would've factored into selling it.  Per what she shared it seemed like either her father or uncle was into tea, and it wasn't clear that she had learned much about the subject from them.  About 10 years ago I bought a cake of modestly priced "young" or new factory sheng at that shop to drink, to explore and acclimate to the type.  That purchase was based on a recommendation of a fellow visitor there instead of that shop owner, who made no recommendations, related to limiting discussion of any background.  It was probably roughly as poor a choice as I could've made, quite harsh without significant aging input.  Still, it worked out; I acclimated to bitterness, some, and went on to explore oolongs more, returning to sheng exposure and preference some years later, only after her shop had closed.

That shop owner was also selling Chinese artwork, in some seemingly traditional form, having people produce high volumes of quickly made versions using related site space as a studio.  Looked at one way both ventures represented exploiting a connection to "her" culture, two different subject themes which she may or may not have been an expert in, or even as knowledgeable as an average tea enthusiast or fan of art.  Or maybe that's a completely unfair and inaccurate take.  Thais don't put much thought into topics like cultural appropriation, or even racism for that matter, so it wouldn't have been discussed as being an example of that back then.  

Maybe this doesn't connect as well to this point for a second reason, because the stereotype image of Chinese people is completely different here in Thailand.  In one sense it's not negative at all, and in another it could be seen as such.  All that is complicated, and maybe a bit off the point, but somehow it seems relevant to clarify that there isn't the same sort of otherness or negative connotation here that Chinese people would experience in the US in most places.  A lot of people have Chinese ancestry, and people with Chinese family background tend to be among the most wealthy members of society.

That last part may muddy the waters a bit in relation to a strand of other related themes matching up better.  I suppose it works to be mindful that simple conclusions don't work well related to unpacking and understanding complex issues and perspectives.  That's why So Han and Riu offering their thoughts and examples worked so well, because they touched on broader scope issues, then brought up examples of personal experiences relating to those points, and clarified how they saw it all fitting together based on the benefit of hindsight and further consideration.