Sweetest Dew / Dylan Conroy sharing exceptional Qimen

 

This is a second review of teas sent by Dylan Conroy for me to try (after reviewing a white tea here), as much sharing experience as for review exposure, but both.  These are Qimen, a main black tea type he has been focusing on.

That type should be familiar as an older tea type, more original, often now sold as high volume production and moderate quality versions.  Of course there are exceptional versions out there, but they don't make it to the West so often.  People might demand Lapsang Souchong, Jin Jun Mei, or Dian Hong more, as Chinese black teas go, then onto Golden Monkey or whatever else.

These two tea versions were amazing.  I'll let the review description go on more about that, not really even doing much with conclusions beyond that account.  He sent a third to try, but I tend to avoid doing three way comparison reviews these days, so I'll get back to that.  It's too much tea to try, and I don't brew tea without actually drinking it.  I'll let his Sweetest Dew vending page description of both types serve as an introduction:

Old Style Qimen (listing for a bit under $30 per 50 grams, I think, 911 baht, although I'm not seeing that volume clearly defined)

Qimens originally were picked around Gu Yu, late April, underwent no shape making step and Then were then baked using charcoal. The maker of this tea is replicating the original Qimen.

Because the tea is a late pick, it is mostly leaves. And while you may expect a dark bitter brew, what you get instead is a medium-light brew that is very clean and has notes of natural honey and nuts. The profile isn't very complex but the flavor is simply enjoyable.

Qimen Mao Feng (the same price, 911 baht, or under $30 for 50 grams)

Qimen Mao Feng is the smoothest out of all the Qimens.

Contary to popular belief Qimen Mao Fengs are not made with the mao feng cultivar or use the Mao Feng picking standard. Mao Feng simply means there is no shape making step, the leaves hold the natural shape they took on during the making.

Qimen Mao Fengs, the original Qimen black tea, is the smoothest of all the styles. It also boasts the the most savory body. This particular one is rich and deep with a whismical floral aroma to it. While boasting no loud flavor notes or aromas, this Qimen will sooth you with a calm but rich body that is reminisent of Mao Feng green tea.

I looked for a picture of Dylan on his sales site but didn't find one.  Maybe I'll show what he looks like in one last review post.  I did see a cool looking travel set there, a small gaiwan and four cups, for about $20.  That might be worth looking into if someone is going to order tea, since shipping works out better if get more stuff, since the value gets better and better, the ratio of what you buy to cost of sending it, if the selling price is good to begin with.

Review:

Old Style Qimen:  I've not had even a basic version of qimen in so long I can't place how this relates to that.  I remember it as basic black tea, maybe a bit inky as flavor ranges go, but then I never tried anything presented as exceptional.

This is exceptional.  It's inky too, with good sweetness, good flavor complexity, great balance and depth.  Flavor might center on something along the lines of roasted sweet potato.  Mineral depth really stands out; it's complex.  Feel is nice and rich, especially for this being a first relatively light round.  I tend to go back to Dian Hong range as a baseline, for style, aspects, and match to preference, and this doesn't overlap that much with that typical range.  It's more refined, which is good, with a lot of depth and complexity, but it's not as basic in a sense that's both good and also limiting.  Depth comes across as much as the flavor, at this point, it's not as flavor-forward, which really could relate to it being a first round.  It's too early for those kind of conclusions anyway.

Qimen Mao Feng:  before that fully registered it stood out that it's good.  This has pretty good depth too but there's a range of intense flavor that really stands out.  This reminds me a little of the more oxidized style of Jin Jun Mei, the warmer, honey-toned versions of those.  Not a little either, an awful lot.  I mean like this version.  The strong honey note is common with those, ranging from honey taste into beeswax.  There is some general roasted sweet potato / yam range too; let's just say it's more yam in this version, even though at some point these interpretations tend to be guesswork.  Warm mineral tone also stands out.  Not like in the other, exactly, where that base layer and depth is a good half of the overall experience, but it supports the rest.  

Both of these are very complex and refined.  This is a quality range in black teas that doesn't come up that often.  To say that neither includes any flaws is technically correct, but it's discussing a range of concerns that doesn't even come to mind.  These are carefully and well made teas, the product of a long tradition, for sure.  It is also interesting trying versions from new places, people originating new styles, or borrowing from other areas, and this doesn't seem to be that.  

Maybe "Qimen Mao Feng" is a reference to exactly what I'm describing [later edit:  it's not], but even if so it's not a case of a new tea maker sorting out processing.  It couldn't be.  I can love the results from such a set of inputs, or possibly even prefer a version to these, but it never results in tea this refined.  The unusually fine leaf and bud material is surely a related input; that's not typical of almost any black tea types.  It's normal for Jin Jun Mei, and that's about it, of what I've tried.

I'm curious how this version can brew darker liquid when the leaf oxidation level seems much lighter (the color), and this includes a lot of fine bud content.  Intuitively both would seem to lead towards the opposite outcome.  For once no speculation goes with that observation; I just don't know.

Old Style Qimen #2:  intensity picks up in this, not that it was overly subtle the first round.  I'm not going to do justice to unpacking this complex flavor.  Warm mineral is definitely the base; that part is easy.  Roasted sweet potato is still dominant, but there's a lot more going on this round.  It seems like floral range joined that, a very rich, deep, and heavy floral range, like rose petals.  Dried fruit might relate to some of the rest, in a type range that's hard to pin down, along the line of dried tamarind, but that's not it.  It's so intense that it seems like there's more to it yet, maybe something like caraway seed spice, tying this to how a dark rye bread might come across.  

It's pleasant; it all really integrates.  It comes across as all one thing, but then when you try to describe what that is it seems like there's a lot to it.  Feel is rich and some aftertaste experience adds depth.  I would expect the other to be considerably different too; this will be a lot to experience in just two rounds.

Mao Feng Qimen:  it's more that the balance of the flavors from the last round changed, but something is fundamentally different in how it comes across.  It tastes like brandy; it has that richness, intensity, and depth.  Teas taking on a liqueur- like quality isn't new, but this form of that isn't familiar.  A high quality Wuyi Yancha oolong might start into that range, but not like this, in a lighter range form, like a touch of cognac versus this resembling brandy.  

Intensity, refinement, and complexity for this tea version are all off the charts.  There's a "wow!" effect, a simple response of appreciation, that goes beyond the attempt to evaluate aspects or describe it in terms of liking it to a certain degree.  This is better tea than I would tend to try to drink on a regular basis, even cost aside; tea just doesn't need to be like this.  Versions that are more basic, with simpler character and more rough edges, essentially almost all black teas, compared to this, can be appealing for being approachable, for not requiring or implying that you should fully experience and appreciate them.  

It would seem absurd to drink this tea along with toast and jam.  It would be good though, once you moved past that set of expectations.  I just never would have this tea with a rushed breakfast, which to me isn't necessarily the core of tea drinking and appreciation, that role as a mundane beverage, but somehow that helps me connect with teas, in a sense.  

Anyone who has tried a very exceptional, refined, complex, and unique Jin Jun Mei knows what I'm talking about.  I want to stop short of saying that some teas can be too high in quality, since I don't mean that, but moving past all "basicness" in style can almost seem to come with some limitation.  Very refined Wuyi Yancha can be similar; it calls for a different kind of experiential approach to really take it in.  I'm not an aesthetic setting / ceremonial approach / mystical tea experience kind of guy; for people on that page this could take black tea experience to another level.

Old Style Qimen #3:  brewed lighter it comes across as less intense, but not so different otherwise.  The depth and refinement are really nice.  Complexity would stand out more if this wasn't compared to the other version.  This is definitely nothing at all like the low-medium quality commercial versions of Qimen I've tried before.

Mao Feng Qimen:  the way the balance of the aspects I described shift is really novel and appealing, but hard to describe.  Different parts stand out more brewed at different intensity, or else it's just evolving through rounds, or both.  That beeswax note is really catchy, and the overall effect, the balance of complex flavors, is very appealing.  Higher end and forward flavor range balances so well with depth and a mineral base.  

Refinement is exceptional, not just a lack of flaws, but the opposite.  That last set of comments is the closest I've ever came to complaining that the quality level is too high.

Old Style Qimen #4:  a dark wood tone base picks up.  It's not like when teas get brewed out, and become woody, more that aromatic / aged furniture range that can come up, in between the flavor of rich dark tropical wood and aromatic oil that might be used as a preservative.  The thickness and richness of this tea is really something.  After you swallow it the aftertaste experience almost seems stronger than the taste while drinking it.  Rich mineral base seems to connect with a warm spice aspect, an aromatic incense range of spice, which of course is not separate from what I'm describing as aged furniture / tropical dark wood / essential oil that I can't place.  It's closest to an aromatic bark spice range but it also includes root spice sort of depth.  It's all quite nice.  

I doubt this tea is close to finished but I'll need to stop taking notes to go run an errand, and drinking 8 fast cups of hot tea on a ridiculously hot Bangkok afternoon is pushing it.  I ran 10k this morning, up early anyway to take our cat to get a bandage changed, an outcome from fighting a street cat, and experienced some mild heat stroke even at 10 AM.  

It's nice being able to see that on a heart rate graph now.  I don't need to, I can feel it internally, but there it is in stats, that I was running a slow pace (6:30 km or so) at 160 bpm heart rate, for the last 6 km.  The actual experience had more immediacy and depth than the stats; I felt a lot like walking instead.  But I didn't; I kept running "slow," and toughed it out.

for me doing 5k at 150 bpm is a rough go

what struggling looks like (note device distances don't match--strange)

Mao Feng Qimen:  floral range picked up a lot.  The earlier flavors are still there, but this continued that trend of the balance completely shifting round to round.  That's pleasant, and novel.  Transitions across infusions is normal but it's usually not that extreme.  New flavors can join, or some from the earlier set can drop out, but that kind of thing is more common for sheng pu'er than for black tea.

I don't feel like this version is completely eclipsing the other but I do like it more, and it's more unique, complex, and novel.  

From drinking upper-medium level quality oolong I've gotten into the habit of guessing what a normal price range would be for tea versions, for a style and quality level, and for this tea being so unique that really doesn't work.  For this version it's more about if the higher end of pricing can still make sense.  If this sold for much under $1 a gram it would be underpriced, but in general I just wouldn't consider buying much of anything for $1 a gram.  Most of what self-styled "curator vendors" are presenting as high quality, unique, exceptional, refined teas surely aren't on this level.

Let's consider a reference:  that "honey style" Jin Jun Mei from Wuyi Origin, that I mentioned earlier, somehow sells for $40 for 100 grams (that seems low).  Their "wild Jin Jun Mei" sells for $74.60 per 100 grams, that might be even better.  I can't place this tea version in relation to those two, although it's tempting to try, but it's exceptional enough that the second typically unheard of higher price range--high for black teas--might be about right.  Or if a tea style and version barely exists at all, which is probably true of that wild Jin Jun Mei too, then market rate is whatever a source says it is, because there is no second option out there.  

If smaller vendors tip towards a $1 / gram price range because their mark-up practices are different that's not necessarily unjustified.  Competing on value with a direct-from-producer outlet isn't practical.  Larger outlet vendors will sometimes describe not quite as novel and high quality teas in similar ways and sell them for that just under $1 / gram range.  Maybe that's fair too; not everyone is combing the internet for the best value for unrealistic novelty and quality level teas.  

Only a limited subset of tea drinkers could even appreciate what these are, really.  And I don't see that as a bad thing; I personally don't need for the teas I experience and enjoy to be anywhere near this good.  When I drink Wuyi Origin teas I have a similar experience, that I can tell they're that much better than everything else I ever drink, but that in some limited sense that must still be wasted on me.

Conclusions:

There doesn't seem to be much more to cover, really, since I wrote some conclusions into the notes.  The Old Style version was quite good, only seeming less interesting for the Mao Feng version being that extra bit better.  I really didn't expect these teas to hold their own with Wuyi Origin's (Cindy's) Jin Jun Mei versions.  Maybe only the one did, but quality level, complexity, refinement, and novel style were all really far up the scale for that tea version.  It holds its own with anything else.

For people considering ordering this that might pose a dilemma:  it's quite interesting to compare different styles or versions of novel tea types together, but for sure the Mao Feng version is better.  It would help shift the psychology of that decision a little if they weren't priced the same.

They were both pleasant to try; Dylan sharing these samples was much appreciated.

ITea World Da Hong Pao and Zhangping Shui Xian

I'm reviewing the next two types of oolongs that were part of a set sent by ITea World for review.  This follows an earlier review of Dan Cong and Tie Guan Yin versions, here.  I had liked that Dan Cong more, but both seemed pleasant, and a reasonable value as moderate cost, above average quality, high volume tea outlet versions.

The same holds true for these, again with one outshining the other, per my personal preference.  The teas come as part of a sample set, here; they don't seem to be sold separately.  100 grams of four types of oolong are sold as 5 ounce separate samples, for 1475 baht, about $45.  That would be a good price if quality was exceptional, and not all that great a value if it was lower-medium level, and to me it seems fair for what the teas are, pretty good but not necessarily great.  They do seem a bit better than the versions they sent for review a year or so before.

To me the Dan Cong and Da Hong Pao really outshined the other two versions, but personal preference factors into such a judgement, even though I see it as also based on a fairly objective assessment of quality level and trueness to a standard type.  This post spells all that out in great detail, related to these two teas.  

In that earlier post I reviewed how some alternative sources work out, and I'll sample one from the top of a Google search list here to do the same, to clarify the one type, and support what I'm claiming about a market value:

Palais Des Thes Zhang Ping Shui Xian Grand Cru (selling for $48 per 100 grams)

This Zhang Ping Shui Xian Grand Cru, which translates to “water fairy from Zhang Ping”, is harvested in the namesake village in Fujian province, China. The tradition of oolong compression continues here: growers carefully compress oolong made from the Shui Xian cultivar into small cubes.

A superb oolong with delicate white flower, yellow fruit and vanilla notes which develop against a subtly powdered texture.

In order to bring out all the aromatic complexity of this tea, we recommend multiple infusions using the traditional Chinese Gong Fu Cha method.

Maybe that's roughly equivalent in quality level and style, or maybe it's better, or possibly even lower in quality level; there's no way to know without trying it.  That Google search turned up countless other examples, some costing significantly less, and again only trying them would indicate style, aspect range, and quality.  

Review:

Da Hong Pao:  this is nice.  It's so heavy on cinnamon flavor that it seems more type-typical for Rou Gui than Da Hong Pao, but it probably includes more Rou Gui than Shui Xian, and probably little or none of Qi Dan or Bei Dou, the more original DHP cultivars.  Da Hong Pao means two different things:  a derivative version of one of the original plant versions (7 originally, was it?), or else a style, most typically a blend of other plant types made to taste a certain way, typically with an upper-medium roast input level.  This could be the second thing.  Or it's conceivable that it could just be Rou Gui, but I doubt that.

This producer outlet listing of blended Da Hong Pao clarifies what I mean, about DHP also referring to a blend.

It's good, the main thing.  And the style is fine for the DHP range; it's appropriate.  It includes a good bit of inky mineral depth that works as a quality level marker across a lot of Wuyi Yancha range (just not always present; the styles of those vary, and plant types).  Sweetness is good, as is flavor range and overall balance.  Aftertaste is pronounced, already, including mostly that heavy cinnamon note.

Other flavor range matches ordinary DHP scope.  Warm mineral and cinnamon stand out the most, and the warm tones of a roast input (probably coupled with significant oxidation, not the low level version).  The rest is what people tend to describe in lots of different ways, as a familiar range, but one that doesn't map over to food and other flavor experience all that well.  It tastes like leather, or aromatic dark woods, towards incense spice, and so on.  It's not dis-similar to some dried fruit, like tamarind, but that's not it.  Probably an obscure spice reference is better than that whole list of guesses.

Zhangping Shui Xian:  this isn't really opened up yet; it will probably take two long infusions just to get it going.  I'll pass on an early impression anyway.  It's too light to come across as positively as it will when brewed stronger.  Often a bright freshness is a main part of this style of oolong, if the couple of examples I've tried are an indication, and this doesn't include all that much of that just yet.  The flavor that is present isn't too far off good Tie Guan Yin range.  

If floral tones pick up, and sweetness, and a fresh edge, this will be right where it should be.  If not it will be a decent but somewhat muted version of this style.  I'll take it apart to give it a chance to express itself better.

DHP #2:  mineral tones really pick up, from pronounced to quite strong.  That's positive, as I see it, a normal form of this type.  Roast input is moderate enough that that's lending to this effect quite a bit but it doesn't taste charred, in a good balance.  For people loving a lighter style of these range of teas that's not ideal, but DHP typically is like this, so those people should be drinking something else, a single cultivar type identified as made in that style.  Oddly when a version is sold as Qi Dan or Bei Dou it wouldn't usually be made in exactly this style; DHP really does refer to a processing form, even when the most original plant types are made into something that could fairly be called that, or really represent the original range even more than this evolved modern form does.  

Aftertaste is good in this, and feel thickness is upper medium, so in a pretty good balance.  The mineral really stays with you.  It really tastes like ink smells, as it should.  That effect leans a little towards a liqueur or perfume like character.

This is what you hope random gambling-oriented purchases of DHP in Chinatown shops would be like, and it almost never is.  I like lower quality DHP too though; to me some styles carry over and work better as lower quality versions, even giving up a positive attribute here or there.  Lower medium quality Tie Guan Yin can be drinkable but not as pleasant.  Moderate quality Dian Hong can be great.  I suppose that's all more about my subjective preference than anything that is grounded beyond my experience.

Zhangping Shui Xian:  it has good depth, and is pleasant in character.  The main limitation seems to come from my own expectations, of this including bright floral range and freshness.  It's not like that, at least not in a pronounced form.  The main flavor is quite similar to Tie Guan Yin range, but a warmer and more vegetal variation of that.  I suppose that's like Taiwanese oolong, just without the one pronounced unusual note those tend to include, a strong floral tone.  I could imagine people loving this style, but I don't.  It needs a bit more sweetness and floral range to tie the rest together.

It says on the packaging this is from an old plant source, and in some cases forward or higher end intensity can be diminished in older plants, swapped out for a greater depth.  That doesn't hold as true for Dan Cong; the range of sweet and aromatic tones in those tends to have a strong forward, higher end, more fragrant component, even in styles and versions where depth is more pronounced.  I'm not familiar enough with this style range to place it as just a normal variation or else atypical instead.

Other quality markers, beyond sweetness and flavor intensity, aren't as positive as they could be.  Thickness of feel is very limited, as is aftertaste.  It just doesn't seem exceptional.  It's good though, it's ok, but not as pleasant or seemingly a match in quality level to the DHP version.  That also isn't really in the "best of the best" range, but it's very positive, and works well, even venturing into complex and refined character, so close enough.

DHP #3:  more of the same; as described before.  I'd be surprised if this isn't half Rou Gui.  If so that's fine; they seem to have blended inputs that balance each other well, which is a good example of that second definition of Da Hong Pao.  A touch more woodiness enters in this round; this may be as positive as it will be, and could transition to be less exceptional over 2 or 3 more rounds.  We'll see.

Zhangping Shui Xian:  also more of the same.  A bit of additional warm spice may be picking up; it's better than in the first two rounds.  There is a fullness and depth to this, across flavor and to a lesser extent also feel range, with a touch more aftertaste expression picking up.  For people who love the greenest / lightest styles of Wuyi Yancha this may work well enough.  I can appreciate that style range, depending on what aspects are there, and I like this, but to me it's not really exceptional.  

Beyond lacking intensity, and some flavor aspect range that could be present, it includes no flaws.  It's hard to explain how that defines it, or where to place it in relation to what's not there.  This could easily taste woody, or include a trace of sourness, and so on, and it doesn't.  I might have not mentioned much for flavor yet, beyond that it's vaguely vegetal, in a neutral sense.  It's probably floral too, in a relatively neutral sense, as something like chrysanthemum is.  That's why it comes across as including depth and some complexity, even though flavor intensity is limited.

I'll give these one more 30 second or so infusion and then leave off taking notes.  That won't cover how they transition through the last half of the infusion range, but I can mention something about that later in a conclusion section, after drinking more later.  

I'm brewing 5 grams each of these, the sample versions, which is more like conventional Gongfu approach than I usually use.  I tend to max out proportion, brewing 7 or 8 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan, requiring using 10 to 15 second infusion times across the first half of the cycle, and resulting in brewing over a dozen rounds.  Either way works.

DHP 4:  this might be fading a little; that can happen, for using a lower proportion, and extending brewing times.  It's far from done but this won't make it past a dozen infusions, or maybe even 10.  I bet you could keep stretching this though, brewing it for 45 seconds to a minute lots of times, then even longer.  Cinnamon is fading as woody tones pick up; it's on the downhill side of positive character too.  

I was drinking both on the strong side, really pushing them both to drink this strong related to the other being subtle in character.  You could use shorter times and light infusion strength and this DHP would've been fine, or maybe better, per someone else's taste preference.

Zhangping Shui Xian:  it's fine, not different than last round.

I might mention that as a sheng pu'er drinker I'm acclimated to a really high intensity level in tea character.  For someone dialed into a lighter range this would probably come across better.  The intensity of the DHP brewed a bit strong worked for me, but this stays a bit subtle, picking up depth but not overall intensity.  Sweetness and bright floral tone missing seemed a limitation, although I suppose that it's possible that this is one conventional style version of this tea type.

Conclusions:

Those did start fading after that, so durability wasn't exceptional for either, but again I was pushing the teas related to using a low proportion (for me) and brewing them a bit strong.

So how good were they?  To me it's important to specify that within a range.  Were they presented as exceptional quality, boutique producer teas, or as better than average standard outlet versions?  Were they supposed to compete with the better curator vendor offerings, or instead high volume online outlets, or Chinatown shops?  In the middle, I think.  I'll add pricing and some background during the final editing but from the last review these are sold as medium priced teas, implying a medium level of quality.

In relation to that they're good.  I liked the Da Hong Pao version more, and it seemed like a better quality tea to me, but both were nice enough.  Both fell within a general range for type, although perhaps the Shui Xian could've been a little different, brighter in tone, with more floral range, and sweeter.  As I've mentioned this could've been within a standard range though; it's not a type or style I'm all that familiar with, having only tried a couple of related versions before.

In the last combined review from this set I liked the Dan Cong version more than the Tie Guan Yin, and to some extent that could've related to my preference for type matching that pattern.  That could've happened again.  I'm interpreting my impression as an objective assessment of style (match to standard type) and quality instead, but the themes and impression range can mix, to some extent.

It can be hard to be more specific; just how good were these, on a scale of 1 to 10, in relation to what is selling in mainstream outlets of other types at different pricing, etc.  I think the Da Hong Pao would be as good as what higher volume outlets (or smaller vendors too) sell for 40 cents per gram or so, if their value was good.  Market-style online outlets might carry more versions that aren't quite that good, with this equating to their higher end range.  

It's harder to say for the Shui Xian; the style is less common and less familiar.  Pricing might run slightly higher due to novelty.  I don't think this is an uncommon type or form, at this point, but it does seem like it's a type and presentation that has evolved relatively recently, at least related to Western exposure, to the extent types like Da Hong Pao and the Dan Cong and Tie Guan Yin ranges have been available.  The quality and aspects weren't as appealing for this version as the other, but it is a more novel style.

Mao Feng material white tea and Wang Put Tan Thai shou mei

Thai Wang Put Tan white left, Huang Shan right

An online contact has been describing positive experiences in exploring Chinese teas for awhile, Dylan Conroy, of the small online vending outlet, The Sweetest Dew.  This post is mostly a tea review, but to me that backstory is also interesting, so let's go into that first.

He explores culture and tea, which he sells, but the balance seems to relate more to exploration than profit.  That's not completely unheard of.

We have been discussing Qimen; that has been his previous main focus, in another area.  His "About Me" sales site section probably explains it better than my memory of earlier discussion:

"Some call him the Qimen Jesus, some others "the maofeng guy", but he prefers Dylan. Yup, simple ol' Dylan from Brooklyn...

I studied Mao Feng in Huang Shan, Yan Cha in Wuyi Shan and now Bi Luo Chun in Suzhou. This focused approach to finding teas not only allows me to find the best teas of each category, but to gain a deep understanding of the tea as I do...

The Sweetest Dew is not just a way to sell tea, it's a record of my journey in tea, in China and in Life. 

He is also on Instagram and YouTube. 

He sent this white tea version and also Qimen to try, which I'll get to later.  I'm comparison reviewing this version described here along with a Thai white tea version:

Huang Shan Mao Feng White Tea

This white tea is made with the traditional Mao Feng cultivar. It is subtle and but still has the vegetal nuttiness of a Mao Feng Green tea. The body is soft and fuzzy showing that the drying was done very well. This tea is honestly on par with Fu Ding Shou Meis. 

This is a new tea so we don't know how the flavors will develop as it ages. You can be one of the first to try it. 

It lists for 913 baht for 50 grams, a bit under $30 (there must be a way to change that listed currency).  That's a bit for white tea, but if it's exceptional that's still fair, and since I'm writing this after trying it I can confirm that it definitely is unique and very positive.  Dylan is helping a friend / local contact by selling her tea as well, with her story on a different page:

Hello! I am Jing, a post-80s generation, and my current job is to share the good tea from my hometown. I was born in a mountain village in She County, Huangshan, Anhui. My hometown is a very beautiful place, with a forest coverage rate of 80%, and the environment and soil are both beautiful. It is very suitable for the growth of tea trees. My family also has several acres of tea mountains. I have grown up smelling the fragrance of tea and drinking tea in tea mountains and tea factories since I was a child, so I have a strong affection for tea... 

The subtle taste and aroma of the tea leaves in each tea mountain are different. I like to use a cup of tea to feel the charm of a mountain. If you also like to drink tea, then taste the fresh fragrance of the vegetation thousands of miles away from my tea.

That sounds nice, that area, background, and perspective.  

On with describing the tea then, along with a Thai white version that my friend Huyen shared with me a couple of weeks ago while visiting from Vietnam.  It's from the Wang Put Than plantation, one of the main half dozen producers, maybe, or else maybe I just keep hearing about them even though they're not that, in relation to production volume. They market themselves as a producer who also emphasizes tea tourism, visiting their plantation, and maybe they do that well enough that their name keeps coming up.

Review:

Thai Wang Put Tan shou mei (2021):  subtle; that can happen.  I gave this a 20 second or so infusion time but it's not a lot of leaf, maybe only 4 grams or so.  I'll bump timing next round.  These teas can't really overbrew, for sure.

It's hard to isolate much more for flavors or character; not all that much is coming through just yet.  It seems pleasant, sweet, creamy, with rich flavors, maybe including a touch of caramel or toffee.  What does come across is nice, this just needs to be brewed stronger.

Huang Shan Mao Feng material Chinese white:  that offers a little more.  A light vegetal range gives it some intensity, just not much yet, combined with sweet floral tones.  A bit of spice joins the rest, in the general cinnamon range.  The vegetal range isn't heavy, like celery or green bean or the like, more a scent of fresh tree leaves in the spring.

Wang Put Tan, round 2:  an interesting range of flavors pick up.  A creaminess comes across, but that's not a main flavor.  There is cinnamon spice in this too, but it's also more a supporting aspect.  That flavor that stands out is probably really a set.  One main part is along the line of root beer, that root spice input.  Sweetness does take on a pleasant character, like light toffee.  

It's evident from the leaf color that this is considerably more oxidized, and that comes out in that slight warm tone.  It's all fairly subtle still, even for the 50 or so second infusion time, but it's quite pleasant.

Huang Shan white:  now this really hits, not so different than last round but at double the intensity.  That same list kind of works:  sweetness, vague fresh floral range, some degree of vegetal input, but a light and pleasant version of that, maybe towards fennel, sweet, light, and fresh.  There isn't a heavy spice input but a touch of cinnamon balances the rest, or that really could be a different spice input that only reminds me of cinnamon, that is somewhat similar.  

These are so different that it's odd asking which is better, but why not go there.  Preference would dictate that kind of judgment, or someone could ask a different question, which seems like a higher quality version within the style it's made in.  Perhaps for both this Chinese tea edges out the other Thai version.  The higher intensity is more pleasant, and additional complexity, and more novel flavor aspect set.  I can try to isolate feel and aftertaste more in a next round, since these also tie in to overall effect and to quality level.  

The Thai tea is still nice, just not quite as complex, intense, and interesting as the other.  This Chinese version bridging so much varying flavor aspect range is really novel, and it all integrates well.

Wang Put Tan, #3:  creaminess stands out again; that part is pleasant.  Warm flavor tones are also nice.  Intensity is a limitation though; even for using a 45-50 second infusion time this doesn't taste like all that much.  What is there, a bit of toffee, a hint of spice, and maybe some other warm tone adding context, is fine, it's good. Feel is fine, just not thick or pronounced. 

Huang Shan white:  vegetal range shifts, the green leaf effect.  It still tastes a little like fennel, but a faint edge picks up.  It would be bitterness if it was much stronger, so it's really not that, as we tend to typically perceive flavors, even if it is actually that.  It's like the scent of a dried oak or maple leaf, which are of course things we tend to not actually eat or taste.  It's quite good.  There is still the rest there, some limited spice, good sweetness, non-distinct floral range. Both of these aren't full in feel like oolongs more often are but not thin either. Overall balance is good. 

Conclusions / later rounds:

I tried both for a few more rounds, brewing a couple more quite strong.  The Thai version stayed remarkably similar, not changing much at all.  The Chinese white was quite positive for a couple of more infusions, and picked up a woody aspect note that wasn't really negative, it balanced ok with the rest.

I am evaluating the Huang Shan version much more positively here in the aspects list description, and the quality just seemed that much better.  And novelty; this was a style experiment, it seemed, trying out making white tea from green tea producing material, and to me it went well.  Probably this Chinese tea is selling for at least twice the cost of the Thai version (although I didn't see a sales listing for it), and for the most part that would seem fair to me, it really is a bit different.

What about commentary on that broad divide in oxidation level, or probably earlier aging input, or later aging potential?  The Chinese version was probably made in a much lighter style, not allowed to oxidize much at all during processing.  It suited the material; the outcome was quite positive.  Probably the opposite was true for the Thai tea, and they let it wither for a good bit longer, to draw out an oxidation input.  I liked that tea too, which does seem to be within the general range of shou mei, so maybe both decisions were appropriate.

I doubt that the three years of prior aging (the 2021 origin date for the Thai tea) had caused all or even most of that oxidation level difference.  Teas can age pretty fast in Thailand, in a hot and humid place, but I'd guess they made it to intentionally have a running start on browning, and changing to warmer toned character.  Once tea versions pick up a touch of cinnamon, as that had, that seems really nice.  

The minor differences in intensity and complexity were something else; I would guess that material quality factored in, that the producer who made the Chinese white was starting with better leaf material.  And it seems that quite simple processing led to a positive result.

Aging either wouldn't seem to make sense, for two different reasons. The Thai tea lacks intensity, and aging typically swaps out early intensity and fresh flavors for more warmth and depth. The Huang Shan version is very pleasant bright and fresh like that; it would seem a shame to give that up. 

I like white teas, even though in the past I've been critical of versions that lack flavor intensity and complexity.  If the bit that's there is positive you can always push the tea, brew it hot, and for a bit longer, or bump proportion, and if there just isn't much to offer even that won't work.  The Thai version was good, and the other didn't need to be stretched.

It would be nice if I could push a step further, and compare both of these to the same material being produced as different styles, as Jing mentioned in her intro part that I cited.  I've tried Mao Feng green tea but I'm definitely not the right person for that.  

It's interesting looking back on that section and seeing the claim that this white tea is on par with Fuding shou mei versions.  It's a good bit better than most of the standard commercial versions I've tried, but really it would need to be evaluated against a higher tier version range, not what ends up being pressed and sold as cakes that cost very little, the white tea equivalent of factory pu'er (which can be ok; I don't mean that as a slur).  It's good, but I'm not familiar with how it would compare to well above average quality versions, since I'm not familiar with boutique production Fuding shou mei.

Are slimming tea products unethical?

 

It seems strange asking and answering this question; all of this was sorted out and overdone years ago, and has went quiet since.  A new producer brings it all up again.

I'll start with the short answer, or at least my take:  yes, slimming tea products are unethical.  

At least in the most common form they occur in.  Exceptions are possible; that's a lot of what I'm discussing here.

The main theme is using "real tea," or just other herbal ingredients, to serve as a laxative and diuretic, to cause people to lose water weight and speed up bowel movement processing.  Both will cause a temporary weight loss effect, but neither is "slimming" in the sense of helping someone lose body fat, the main intended meaning.  Both are relatively unhealthy, since maintaining normal digestion and appropriate hydration level is more optimum, and adjusting and disrupting these is less healthy.

What about a stimulant effect; couldn't that help with weight loss?  Yes, to a limited extent.  Caffeine already is a stimulant, present in every kind of "real tea," camellia sinensis based versions, and adding more of that, or that plus some other stimulant, is probably not a good idea.  It doesn't really work to speed up metabolism to lose weight anyway; it's far superior to adjust diet inputs, to ingest less calories.

I can easily enough explain why that is.  I run a good bit, 10 km / 6.4 miles per outing, three times a week (typically), for a total of 20 miles or 30 km per week.  According to a tracking app that burns about 600 calories per outing, towards 2000 per week; that's a good start.  But it's not hard at all to eat an extra 600 calories per day, and certainly not 300, working back to a weekly average.  Revving up metabolism an equivalent amount through stimulants lands on the same result, that it's not helpful unless daily dietary intake and expenditure balance.  

If medium-high exercise for three hours a week "only" burns up an additional 2000 calories, or about that, stacking an extra stimulant on top of ingesting caffeine would need to make a significant difference--and have potentially significant negative side effects--to achieve the same outcome.  Then eating or otherwise consuming an extra 300 calories per day would be easy; it's not that much.  Two cans of Coke is close to that (278); you could just drink that input daily.

So as I see it people creating, marketing, and selling "slimming tea" versions are more or less selling snake oil.  At best the products wouldn't do much, and at worst laxative and diuretic effect or stimulant input would be quite negative.  

Caffeine is already a diuretic too, beyond being a stimulant, so ordinary tea already covers that.  People's experience of side effects vary, so not everyone would agree with that, and it requires a significant daily dose to cause that effect (water loss), but a daily recommended limit of 400 mg of caffeine will cause water loss for most people.  Taking even more diuretic is not a good idea; temporarily losing water weight isn't helpful.

Some people might feel that they retain too much water, and feel bloated, so it would be good for them.  An easy way to offset this is to limit intake of compounds that cause increased water retention, particularly salt (sodium).  Or drinking more tea could help, and adding a bit more caffeine, which is a bit counter-intuitive, since that's ingesting more water as well.  Tea is said to contain between 25 and 40 mg of caffeine per a standard 8 ounce cup (250 ml, more or less), so brewed a bit strong it might take 10 cups to ingest that standard daily limit of 400 mg, the same as in four cups of coffee (on average).  80 ounces of tea is well over 2 quarts / liters; depending on the diuretic effect experienced someone might not need to add more water to compensate, but given how it can speed up water loss some people would.

I'm not claiming that maxing out caffeine intake is definitely a good idea, to speed up metabolism and get diuretic effect to really kick in.  I typically drink about 8 grams worth of tea a day, intentionally keeping that moderate, which I expect might amount to around 240 mg total (maybe less), down to 220 or less since extraction rate isn't 100%.  Long term effects are impossible to predict, so to me practicing moderation makes sense, related to essentially everything we consume.

Back to the specific starting point, the ethics issue.

A new slimming tea product

It's this product, last discussed by the developers in this tea group post:

Oddly that post is about discussing potential product names, and they've already set up the vending page with the product name and some marketing content, so that seems odd, and perhaps not completely genuine.

What is it they're discussing, or selling?  That's not clear yet.  They've implied it's based on pu'er tea, but there are no product details out yet.  Maybe that plus a diuretic and laxative, the most conventional earlier form.  Maybe something else.  It seems unlikely that they might incorporate a formerly unknown herbal input that really helps with weight loss, but I suppose it's not inconceivable.

  

About that, I wrote not so long ago about how brewing ground up papaya seeds extracts a compound that suppresses fat digestion.  That's not so far off the theme of an earlier supplement that did the same, which was embraced and then universally rejected for changing the consistency of the subject's stool in a negative way, making it loose and oily.  That's covered in the Mayo Clinic's summary of Orlistat functions, benefits, and side effects.  This problem stands out:

These side effects include:

Stomach pain or upset stomach

Oily discharge from the anus...

Yeah, no.  

For sure other compounds and herbs out there support weight loss, but there is no magic fix, or it would already be on the market.  Interfering with digestion is an interesting twist, seemingly more promising than stimulant effect, if an input version didn't have such problematic side effects.  Hunger suppression, the effect underpinning the latest Ozempic / Semaglutide craze, is also promising.

Since we can't evaluate or critique the weight loss effect or mechanism of their product, which may or may not exist in a final form yet, let's at least consider something seemingly similar, a pu'er based weight loss support product that adds herbs to support that function, Purasana Pu'er Tea Fat Burner.

Ingredients:  Pu-erh tea (Camellia sinensis), peppermint (Mentha piperata), hibiscus flower (Hibiscus sabdariffa), goldenrod (Solidago virgaurea), rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis)

They claim that goldenrod and rosemary are the "effective ingredients," in that sales page content, or sort of just imply that.  If rosemary made a lot of difference for weight loss people would already be making tea from that.  I have before, many times; it's pleasant.  I didn't lose weight drinking it.

According to this reference goldenrod, which can refer to differing plant types, is a set of flowering plants used as an herb tea / tisane in early US colonial times.  Wikipedia mentions this background and these uses:

Traditional medicine

Solidago virgaurea is used in a traditional kidney tonic by practitioners of herbal medicine to counter inflammation and irritation caused by bacterial infections or kidney stones.[43][44] Goldenrod is also used in some formulas for cleansing of the kidney or bladder during a healing fast, in conjunction with potassium broth and specific juices.[44] Some Native American cultures traditionally chew the leaves to relieve sore throats, and the roots to relieve toothaches.[28]

Medicinal exploration

In various assessments by the European Medicines Agency with respect to Solidago virgaurea, non-clinical data shows diuretic, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, analgesic and spasmolytic, antibacterial, antifungal, anticancer and immunomodulatory activity...

So it could be quite helpful in different uses, but is probably being utilized here as a diuretic.  Note that weight loss is not included in this substantial list of potential benefits.  Maybe another reference can add to that, like this Mount Sinai hospital database record:

Medicinal Uses and Indications

Goldenrod may act as a diuretic, meaning it flushes water from the body by increasing urine output. It may also reduce inflammation. However, it has not really been studied in humans.

Goldenrod is sometimes suggested for the following conditions:

Arthritis and gout

Allergies

Colds and flu

Inflammation of the bladder or urinary tract

Kidney stones

Eczema (applied to the skin)

Minor wounds (applied to the skin)

In that first Wikipedia citation they stated that "non-clinical data shows diuretic, anti-inflammatory, antioxidant..." (properties / benefits), aligning these two inputs.  It's probably good for you, but that second source warns against taking it with any other compounds that have a diuretic effect, since it has such a strong related effect itself.

Diuretics (water pills): Goldenrod may make diuretics stronger, raising the risk of dehydration.

...Other drugs: Due to its diuretic action, goldenrod may interact with any medication that is processed through the kidneys and urine.

So Purasana Puerh Tea Fat Burner seems unlikely to actually help with burning fat, since pu'er and those other common herbs don't support that (most likely, to a significant degree), but it will cause water weight loss.

But first let's back up a bit; maybe rosemary really can support weight loss, and I'm just unaware of that.  I had just set that aside as clearly absurd, but let's check, here:  Therapeutic effects of rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis L.) and its active constituents on nervous system disorders

Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis L.) is an evergreen bushy shrub which grows along the Mediterranean Sea, and sub-Himalayan areas. In folk medicine, it has been used as an antispasmodic, mild analgesic, to cure intercostal neuralgia, headaches, migraine, insomnia emotional upset, and depression. Different investigations have highlighted rosemary neuropharmacological properties as their main topics. 

Rosemary has significant antimicrobial, anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant, anti-apoptotic, anti-tumorigenic, antinociceptive, and neuroprotective properties. Furthermore, it shows important clinical effects on mood, learning, memory, pain, anxiety, and sleep. The aim of the current work is to review the potential neuropharmacological effects of different rosemary extracts and its active constituents on nervous system disorders, their relevant mechanisms and its preclinical application to recall the therapeutic potential of this herb and more directions of future research projects...

The focus of the following research review isn't on all potential health benefits, but this summary and the following outline of context doesn't list weight loss as any traditionally observed potential benefit:

Rosemary, Rosmarinus officinalis L. (Labiatae) has been used in folk medicine to alleviate several diseases including headache, dysmenorrhea, stomachache, epilepsy, rheumatic pain, spasms, nervous agitation, improvement of memory, hysteria, depression, as well as physical and mental fatigue (5, 6)... . 

Recently, noticeable scientific interest is focused on the beneficial therapeutic properties of different kinds of rosemary extracts and its main constituents, such as carnosic acid, carnosol, rosmarinic acid, etc. A large number of studies either on animal models or cultured cells indicate the wide range medicinal properties of rosemary and its compounds such as anti-inflammatory (8, 9), anti-oxidant (10), antinociceptive (11), neuroprotective (12), antidepressant, anti-hysteric, ameliorative of memory and mental fatigue (13-15) (Figure 1)...

Why was it added to a weight loss support product then?  Who knows, but it sounds positive enough, related to so many other effects.  Maybe it helps prevent the pu'er from wrecking your stomach.  That only makes sense if it's sheng pu'er, since shou is the least impactful type of tea, and one other point that comes up in a later source indicates shou might be a better match for this kind of product.

That's a dozen or so very positive effects, from these two herbs.  Would you really recognize all these benefits?  Probably not, based on minute dosage inputs of these and pu'er along with two other herbs.  If the diuretic effect of goldenrod is strong enough that plus caffeine may have an impact.

Back to ethics

Is it really unethical to sell these products based on health claims that seem dubious at best?  I think so, but it's a judgement call.

Drinking only pu'er, without any herbs, could support weight loss, if someone was replacing drinking soda, but that's not part of any "slimming tea" product claims.  Water works for that.

What if there was more to it?  What if they, the two younger American-Chinese business founders, were in on some sort of specialized knowledge?  That is part of the claim, outlined in this earlier link:

Hey Pu'er Tea Club members,

I’m Erik, and together with my sister Angela, we’re embarking on a fascinating journey inspired by our family's deep-rooted connection to tea.

Growing up, our family's move from China to the U.S. greatly influenced our perspective on tea. It became more than a beverage; it was a bridge between cultures and eras. Our dad has spent years researching the health aspects of tea, particularly focusing on a compound in Pu'er tea known as theabrownin. His findings even made their way into the Nature Journal, an awesome achievement!

This sparked in us a desire to explore how we could blend our love for traditional Pu'er tea with modern health concepts. While we're in the early stages of conceptualizing a venture around this idea, our primary goal is to learn and grow within this space...

So could they be identifying a health benefit from a known compound, theabrownin, present in high levels in some pu'er (mostly shou, it seems), and then creating a product around that?  Maybe, but probably not, since if that's all that is happening someone could just drink the pu'er, any similar range version.  

As a related aside, it's not uncommon for research in some countries to be sponsored by commercial interests, for paid support to lead directly to health claims findings that can be used for marketing.  Even if that hadn't been the starting point context anyone can drink pu'er, and for sure this will end up being another tea and herbs blend, with either laxative or diuretic properties, or both.  Or it would be nice if that's not the case.

Let's consider what theabrownin is all about anyway.  Google search brings up this study as the first result:   Theabrownin modulates the gut microbiome and serum metabolome in aging mice induced by D-galactose

Theabrownin (TB) is a complex oxidized polyphenol formed during the microbial fermentation of Pu-erh tea. It offers some health benefits such as weight loss, blood glucose reduction, and oxidation resistance; however, the anti-aging effect and the related mechanism have not yet been explored. In this study, symptoms of aging were induced in mice using D-galactose. Morris water maze test, hematoxylin-eosin staining, 16S rDNA high-throughput sequencing, and UHPLC-QE-MS metabolomics were used to reveal the anti-aging effects and potential mechanism of TB...

So they just throw it out there that of course it supports weight loss, but they're on to reviewing anti-aging potential in that work.  Maybe that's why I look so young (but I drink young sheng the most?).  The background is clear on what they're looking into, but the part about it relating to ripe or shou pu'er isn't promising to me though, as a sheng drinker:

Pu-erh tea is a traditional, historically famous tea from Yunnan, China, made from sun-dried green tea of large-leaf tea trees (Camellia sinensis var. assamica) by microbial solid-state fermentation (Liang et al., 2005, Zhao et al., 2010). It has a unique flavor, full-bodied aroma, outstanding aging aroma, and is a bright red soup with a mellow taste. TB is one of the essential active ingredients of Pu-erh tea. The content of TB in Pu-erh ripe tea can reach 16.86%, which is the primary color substance of Pu-erh ripe tea and plays a decisive role in its quality and function (Qin et al., 2009)...

[in later conclusions]...Drinking Pu-erh ripe tea can produce a variety of metabolic changes in the human body that are linked to the intestinal flora. Therefore, it is suggested that drinking pu-erh tea may change and adjust the structure of intestinal flora (Qasim, Aziz, Rasheed, Gul, & Khan, 2016)...

The linked claims here seem clear enough:  shou pu'er supports healthy digestion function, which carries over to a range of benefits, all the way to supporting longevity and mental health in later life.  How this ties to weight loss isn't clear in this paper; maybe that's a completely unrelated additional positive effect.  Maybe well-aged sheng could mirror this compound inclusion and final effect; that would all be the subject of another study.  

One more aside, they were using Dayi shou for the tests; nice.  Some aged CNNP / Zhong Cha would also be pleasant, but it's good that it worked using a newer version "(label No.7262, batch No.1801, produced on July 5, 2018)."  With that published in February 2022 it had probably had a few years to lose that early funky character, which I can't imagine changes the weight loss or anti-aging effects.

It's not inconceivable that some mix of shou pu'er and herbs could provide some new set of inputs and effects, even though I've been skeptical of that being remotely possible in this discussion.  It would really only be possible to question or dismiss any specific set of claims based on product information and review of related effects from ingredient inputs.

If those entrepreneurs turned up some supposedly traditional Chinese tea and herb blend recipe said to cause weight loss I would still be skeptical, but that couldn't be automatically dismissed.  The Indian Ayurvedic tradition seems to draw on those themes in a parallel way, on a mix of herb inputs or foods accomplishing what any one alone does not cause.  That does seem to be what Traditional Chinese Medicine was always about, combining a range of supporting inputs, not this one-to-one cause and effect sort of sequence that we focus on more in "the West," in terms of supplements, medicine, and other health inputs.

The only claim and background communicated so far relates to modern, relatively Western-style research study, and from the little I've reviewed, or that they have mentioned.  It only relates to drinking fermented / shou pu'er, somewhat explicitly, but even that is indirect.  Even if shou does happen to cause weight loss drinking Dayi already covers that, or any standard source brand.  If this new product is just shou pu'er with extra herbs to function as a diuretic and laxative it will follow the prior pattern, and won't be worth much consideration.

I hope that it's not that, that they create something novel, interesting, and useful.

Tracking heart rate while running in Bangkok heat

 

I'm not sure who a run training update would be interesting for or helpful to, which is why I don't write these very often.  I'm not sharing results on Strava or anything like that either, racing, or running with friends, so I just keep doing it to exercise, as my own thing.

Trying out tracking heart rate is the newest thing.  I suppose what seemed like a minor injury back in October or so had been the newest thing earlier; I never knew what to make of that.  A knee issue seemed inconsistent, as if tendons were sore in different places, maybe moving around because the real cause of the problem was elsewhere, a glute or hip stabilizer muscle issue.  Who knows what it was.

After resolving that through rest and time off, and building moderate intensity weekly mileage back up, to about 30 km per week now, I tried out using a very basic heart rate monitor.  

It's not so uncommon for people to use low heartrate training as a main approach, to calculate some relative low-intensity optimum, and then instead of running miles or km at a set pace to keep heart rate consistent.  That was never the plan; I was mostly just curious what it was.  It seemed interesting to be able to see how heart rate varied with pace, and effort level, and if heat stress seemed to be affecting that factor.  Then later maybe it could be a factor in changing approach.

It all worked out as one might expect; a very moderate running pace corresponds to 130 to 135 bpm, and running at higher intensity and a faster pace tops out around 145 to 150.  It seems that related to pace the window spanning the two is not that far apart.  It takes me a lot of effort to run 6 minute kilometers now, even though I had trained to run some of them between 5:30 and 5:45 a year ago.  That was in Honolulu, Hawaii, where it's cooler, with some elevation change on my normal route.  There I could run the 11th and 12th consecutive kilometers at 5:45 on a warm afternoon along a flat course, and in slightly warmer local Bangkok weather now that would be hard.

running alternate intensity 10k at 30 C (86 F)

These both show a new form that I'm trying out, running an easy 5k followed without break by a higher effort, faster 5k.

There isn't all that much training theory behind that.  It combines easing into a session and sustaining some higher intensity running.  The humidity and temperature shift how that kind of thing goes; at a hotter and more humid time maintaining "low" heart rate (135) even at the moderate pace wouldn't work.  It's essentially always in the mid to upper 80s F / upper 20s C in Bangkok, unless you run at 6 AM, and since I'm not a morning person I just try to avoid the low 90s / low to mid 30s C.  I can show how that goes in another stats capture, but I'll add a little about how this workout version shown in graphs feels first.

Running at 135 bpm is fairly relaxed, if it's only 29-30 C, mid-80s F.  I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing; it's my impression that pacing depends on a base level of conditioning, which I'm not qualified to interpret.  It's probably not good or bad, instead just where you are at the time.

Running between 145 and 150 bmp isn't so stressful, but that's as far as I'd want to push it, and sustaining that general level for 5k seems like enough.  In the past I would feel a slight breakdown of my normal equilibrium, energy level, and breathing rate, right towards the end of what I had trained to easily do, and that often related to running 10k in about 1:01 to 1:02, a minute or two faster than using this approach.  That kind of minor difference stands out a lot; running a 30 minute 5k and a 32 minute pace is completely different.  That's the difference between a 6 minute km and a 6:25; it's vast.

I can switch the units, in case someone reading this runs at min / mile:  that's a 9:40 versus 10:20 mile pace (6 to 6:25 min / km).  Again whether that is fast or slow depends on someone's conditioning level.  Anyone routinely training in much cooler weather probably wouldn't tolerate the heat input part of it well, running at 85 to 90 degrees F, regardless of their normal pace.

I always thought it would be easier to train to run faster, much earlier on.  I could break 20 minute 5k race times in high school cross country, and I wasn't all that good a runner, and didn't train that much.  It turns out that running a 4 minute km / 6:26 mile isn't easy to do at age 55, without prior "training up" to that fitness level.  

I had been experimenting with running shorter intervals faster when that odd injury came up, which is probably no coincidence, so in order to avoid that experience I'll have to forego that most natural training approach to drop those times.  If I add some weight training I might become more durable, but I'm not eager to expand training range like that.  I had been walking and swimming more a year or so ago when I managed to push both intensity and volume past where it is now; maybe those really did help with recovery, muscle training, or general conditioning level.

heat impact example; running 7+ k at 31 C (88 F), in the mid-day sun

The other question I had related to the impact of running when it's hotter, when it's not in the mid 80s, but around 90 instead.  A recent outing tested that:

It really wasn't that hot; on that first run it was 30 C, 86 F, and on this second it was 31, 88 F.  The first was in the evening, after dark, and this was in mid-day sun, running between noon and 1 PM, and it really makes a difference.  Of course it does, as humidity level and breeze does (or lack of it), but I mean that you can have a completely different kind of experience, not that it's a noticeable slight change.  

47% humidity is on the dry side for here; I suppose that helped, but running in direct mid-day sunlight was a more problematic negative input.  Those temperatures I've cited are some central Bangkok measurement; I was probably experiencing a broader gap where I actually was, out on a running track / sidewalk environment.

On one running course I complete two 5k laps, with no second warm stretch, and on this route I do either 2 or 3 3.7 km segments, with a warm stretch after 1 km.  On that second heart rate dip (above, during km 6) I was walking to rest, to drop my heart rate, which had been pegged at or near 150 the whole time.  I think that tied to heat stress input, but I haven't fully sorted out other possible variables.  It's easy to write off having any rough outing as heat input, but there's probably more to it.

a track / path around the local royal palace

that running path at night, lit up for some holiday or memorial theme

what it looks like in the daytime

One might wonder, how is this informative or actionable, beyond prompting me to try out that split-pace approach?  I suppose it's not.  I could've felt that the second run described here wasn't going as well without a heart rate stat filling that part in, that I was hot.  I was averaging 6:15 km paces, just not on the two one-km splits with a stretch and walking break, so it wasn't really fast or slow, but it was taking effort to do that.  The second 5k of that earlier run was slightly faster, right on 6 minutes / km instead, at significantly lower heart rate, just below 145 average instead of close to 150.  You can feel that difference.

It's a different thing running against conditioning level versus pushing heat stress tolerance.  You feel a bit tired after an hour of medium intensity running, but that heat stress stays with you, even when only enduring 40 minutes worth of it.  I won't do hour long outings when the heat is getting to me; I could back way off a normal pace and tolerate it better (maybe; I never really try running 7 minute km pace), but it's habit to just stay in a normal pace range and call it a day early.  If I feel off I'll run 6:30 kilometers but beyond that I tend to just pack it in.

Trying out tracking heart rate was only ever about sorting out these patterns, which I had already experienced without tracking that.  I can run a 6 minute km, or 6:30, by feel, even with outdoor temperature input factoring in.  It's odd that the one is such a fast pace for me and other slow; that distribution could be broader.  I think with less heat-stress for running context, actually running when it's below 80 F / 27 C, I could train differently, and make better progress.

In Honolulu now, a daytime high of 78, breezy, with a chance of light rain.  Perfect!

the view running around Diamondhead; pretty nice