Roasted papaya seeds as a coffee substitute, with monk fruit seeds

Oddly I wasn't trying to see if roasted papaya seeds might work as a coffee substitute, and I certainly wasn't focusing on any specific health claim benefits.  It came up that the seeds might be healthy, so I prepared them in an arbitrary way, and it was amazing how similar they are to coffee.  You can skip ahead to that part in a "review" section, or hear about the background, and another tisane I prepaired them with, monk-fruit seeds.  It's more or less some sort of super-food input too, it turns out; strange.

 

This all started with seeing a gag video of a woman eating a papaya, consuming the seeds instead of the fruit.  Several comments said that you really should eat them, that they're healthy, especially related to clearing out internal parasites.  So I dried them the next time I bought a papaya, a couple days later.  That cost me less than $2 for a huge, almost ripe one; Thailand is an absolute paradise for tropical fruit.

I warmed them in a toaster oven for 20 minutes and they didn't fully dry, so I gave them another 20 minutes at 160 C.  That seemed to roast them a little, going beyond drying them, which didn't seem like a concern, or maybe even a positive input.  

I then crushed them in a mortar and pestle device and brewed them along with a sweet Chinese herb my favorite shop owners gave me last week (seeds of a monk fruit, it turns out).  It's a little too sweet and a bit one-dimensional on its own, so it seemed perfect for combining with this, since surely dried papaya seeds aren't very sweet (probably; I guess I still don't know that for sure).

Let's check on monk fruit background and health benefits and then set that aside:

Monk fruit is known for its delicious, sweet taste that comes from natural antioxidants such as flavonoids and mogrosides. It is currently gaining popularity as a natural, low-calorie sweetener.

Monk fruit extract has been used in traditional medicine for centuries due to the following potential health benefits:

Prevents oxidative damage

Studies in rats and mice have shown that monk fruit antioxidants have protective effects...

Research suggests that flavonoids and mogrosides in monk fruit can reduce blood sugar levels. According to a study, monk fruit extract can reduce inflammation, repair damaged cells in the pancreas, and relieve symptoms in mice with diabetes...

Research shows that eating mogrosides helps suppress fat and cholesterol levels and reduce body weight in mice with obesity...

Monk fruit polysaccharides can increase the activity and function of immune system organs like the thymus and spleen in mice... 

Monk fruit can protect the liver and even repair liver damage....

That shop owner (Kittichai of Jip Eu) said that it helps with a fever, that you can take it to help your immune system when you are sick.  I got the impression that he also meant that it reduces internal heat in the Traditional Chinese Medicine sense, the heat / cold / wind / qi kind of theme, which I know nothing about.  

It's definitely really sweet, and it has a more pleasant flavor than stevia, which has more of an aftertaste.

Review:

it's oily

This is really good.  I really didn't expect this to be good; that wasn't in the range of what I expected as a possible outcome.  It tastes like coffee; this could be coffee.  Then there's an herbal edge to it's that's not coffee, so I suppose it could be coffee flavored in some way, like with one of those flavored creamers.  Of course I can't separate the input of the monk fruit, but from having that alone earlier it adds a relatively neutral and intense sweetness. 

The flavor list:  coffee, mild bitterness, oily / creamy feel (ok, that's not a flavor), sweetness (a little like stevia, but not as aggressive, but with a similar but lighter aftertaste).  There's also an odd flavor resembling root spice, like root beer, so sassafras root.  A rich, warm dried fruit tone resembles tamarind; that might be partly from the monk fruit, and I just don't remember it tasting like that, since maybe the sweetness overpowered the flavor trying it alone.

The oily feel is odd; that's pleasant, in this context, but paired with other flavors it could be really off-putting.  It's just like how gas station coffee feels when you add artificial creamer to it; it's thicker and creamier than cream causes.  There is literally an oil coating on the top of this so that's no wonder.  They're seeds; they can contain as much oil as they happen to.

for once I Western-style brewed something, and used a strainer

Second infusion:  like the first round, but much thinner.  The sweetness of that herb is even more pronounced, because those just keep brewing, but the papaya seed is surely done now.  It's even closer to gas station coffee now.

I don't mean that as a criticism.  For older people who were there in the 20th century gas station coffee was a respectable thing.  I would add for younger people that it's like grocery store tin coffee but I bet that's not going to help.  Like McDonald's coffee, or Tim Horton's?  Just kidding; I only eat the doughnuts there, and I don't know what it's like.  Their maple cream-filled doughnuts are so good though.

I bet if you bumped this roast level just a little it could seem like French roast.  This is still medium roast level, and since there is no "light" that means light (outside the coffee world; they probably have it).  Then with actual cream and sugar it might seem even more like coffee, almost exactly like it.

Background on papaya seeds as coffee replacement, health benefits

I Google searched use of papaya seeds as a coffee replacement, and it doesn't seem like a common theme, but it did turn up.  This wasn't what I expected:  The Potency of Carica papaya L. Seeds Powderas Anti- Obesity ‘Coffee’ Drinks

Other formal and informal sources aren't making and reviewing this health claim, or even mentioning this subject.  Here is their conclusion:

Based on the above explanation, it can be concluded that 25.1 grams of papaya seed powder can be obtained from 250.0 grams of wet papaya seeds. Most respondents like the texture, color, aroma, and taste of papaya seeds ‘coffee’. The pancreatic lipase inhibition power of 1.42 gram of papaya seed powder is equivalent to 1 tablet (120.0 mg) of Orlistat. Therefore, using papaya seed powder as antiobesity ‘coffee’ drink is reasonable.

Reasonable?  The obvious question is "what is a lipase inhibitor?"  Then next one might wonder if these results are reliable, and if these papaya seeds really function as that as claimed (supported by their actual research study, so maybe).  But let's start with what they are claiming.

Wikipedia article on Orlistat:

Orlistat, sold under the brand name Xenical among others, is a medication used to treat obesity. Its primary function is preventing the absorption of fats from the human diet by acting as a lipase inhibitor, thereby reducing caloric intake. It is intended for use in conjunction with a healthcare provider-supervised reduced-calorie diet.[4]...

Sure, but again what even is a lipase inhibitor?

Human pancreatic lipase

Pancreatic lipase, also known as pancreatic triacylglycerol lipase or steapsin, is an enzyme secreted from the pancreas. As the primary lipase enzyme that hydrolyzes (breaks down) dietary fat molecules in the human digestive system, it is one of the main digestive enzymes, converting triglyceride substrates like 1 found in ingested oils to monoglycerides 3 and free fatty acids 2a and 2b.[5]

So it stops you from digesting some of the fat that you eat.  And this is why the Wikipedia article on Orlistat mentions that a lipase inhibitor can cause your stool (your poop) to seem oily and have a loose texture.  A little of that would go a long way.

It's impossible to estimate my dosage from that.  This might've been about 5 grams (could be 7), and they said that 10 grams makes 1 gram of powder, and you should take 1.4.  So I'm at one third to half of a normal dose, from the seeds from one large papaya?  I'll add how that went in terms of digestion impact tomorrow.  [later edit:  noticeable, and like Wikipedia described, but not problematic].

Reading around these sources they say that it works (lipase inhibitors, not papaya seeds).  I don't want anything adjusting my digestive system, even though I did gain one kg the last time I was weighed (up to 75; I might fast for a week instead of 5 days next time, to get that kg back off).

The standard health-page input is that it's good for supplementation and treating all sorts of things, including bacterial infections, fungal infections, and parasites.  Who knows; maybe.

It's good though, pleasant to drink.  I'll make this again the next time I buy a papaya, since the trees in our yard don't seem to be on that page of offering one just now.  

that's 4 of them, but the middle one has died since

Thinking back this may be the closest I've come to drinking coffee this year.  That's crazy!  In the past I would sometimes drink it at work, but I barely go to work in the office now, one day a week, unless I'm out of the country working remotely.  I'm in the habit of drinking tea-bag tea there now, since I never took tea and an infuser to that new office site.  Then I would drink coffee at hotel breakfasts when we travel in Thailand, but we last traveled in Thailand in Dec-Jan, the holiday break.  

I guess I'm not much of a conventional American now.  At least I've been in a cycle of eating hamburgers recently, but still made out of ground pork, still following the norm that Thais don't eat beef, even though I'm living alone.  At least I grill sometimes?

I'm shocked that this tisane was this good, that it's far and away the best "herb tea" replacement for coffee that I've ever tried, so close to the flavor and feel of coffee.  Who knows about the health claims; those don't seem to matter, unless you could arrange to drink it regularly.

It's a little odd that I experimented with using papaya leaf as a tisane almost 8 years ago and this theme never came up.

Anyone who eats papaya once in awhile should give this a try.  Not even for the health claims, or to replace coffee, just because it's actually good.

"Covid tongue" and tea experience

 

First published by TChing here.

I wrote about the experience of having covid, me and my whole family, in a recent blog post, with this writing focused more on how it affected tea experience.  I mentioned "covid tongue," or taste impact occurring in that, but I can go further with how it transitioned across the 10+ days of experience, which that didn't cover.

For the first couple of days I was ill enough that I didn't notice a difference in sense of taste beyond what a flu causes, experience in general seeming hazy and off.  At around the third day, when the initial loss of energy was just starting to ease up, and sore throat was at the worst, an odd experience of a metallic taste occurred, even without any tasting experience occurring at the time, without even drinking plain water.

Then over most of the next week the main "covid tongue" theme occurred, a relatively complete loss of sense of taste.  It included tongue based flavor (even sense of sweetness was diminished), and also aromatic compounds dropping out, which is common with colds and flus.  The degree was interesting; I couldn't tell the difference between the tea I drank in the morning and hot water.  Then after a few days it was interesting how that sensation would partially return in the evening; I could get a clear but limited sense of the taste of what I was drinking.

At the 11th day from the start of symptoms my tea still barely tasted like anything in the morning.  For the first time I chose a tea based on trying to drink something higher in quality that may have a better health impact (kind of a random guess, that part), going back to drinking above average sheng pu'er, even though I knew that I'd not be able to taste it.  For the last two days more significant flavor input is coming through.

at the hospital with two covid patients, the day before I came down with it

Across the week I kept drinking teas that would've seemed suitable for that range of experience.  Shu is nice for experiencing during illness, it seems to me, so rich and earthy that a little might come across, or at least the style somehow seems to match.  Early on I drank a musty, over-fermented aged sheng version to get rid of it, to take advantage of not tasting it, and I cleared through some gaba versions.  Later I was drinking more intense, only moderately aged sheng versions, in the hope that part of the taste might blast through in a positive way.  That actually worked; drinking a 2015 Dayi Jia Ji tuocha version would've normally been such an intense experience that it would require using short infusion times and light infusion strength to moderate it, but with this limitation I could brew it a bit strong and then get a sense of that heavy mineral and rich woody, smoky, or toffee input (not exactly any of those, but towards those ranges).

People in tea groups tend to comment that they couldn't imagine losing the sense of experience of tea that they value so much, but for me it's normal to take different kinds of breaks, or to vary what I experience to keep it fresh.  During vacations I'll switch to grandpa style brewing or an imprecise Western approach, and drink more basic teas during that time.  I've even taken breaks from tea, just not recently, since I changed to moderate input volume to get to a similar end point, to avoid long term exposure issues.  

It's too bad about losing that normal tea experience, but I was much more concerned about being healthy again, about other aspects coming up from this running even longer.  I tried out going for a light run before I was really recovered, in case bumping metabolism rate somehow helped, and it did seem to have a positive impact on recovery, but I ended up napping a couple of times later that day to restore my energy level. 

Of course I drank lots of tisanes over that first 10 days.  Maybe that helped and maybe it didn't; hard to say.  The hot liquid at least had a temporary soothing effect.  A Chinese-Malaysian friend recommended drinking coconut water, which I only tried after recovery was well underway, since I had not been out shopping at all for two weeks, the longest gap since the pandemic started.  It's a great time to have a lot of chrysanthemum tea on hand, to use as a filler or basis for other tisanes.  In the past I've enjoyed masala chai as a good match for illness experience, which can work with tea and tisanes mixed as a base, but I ate a good bit of heavily spiced oatmeal with fruit instead this time.

Of course I'm wondering how long this could last, when my sense of taste will fully return.  Unlike most people who do as much with the theme of tea as I do I'm not that concerned; I could take a month break.  It's not tied to any business theme, and the reviewing gets to be a bit much anyway.  You don't fully appreciate what you've got until you lose it, so it will help me in that sense, tied to not taking tea experience for granted.

With breakfast the last day of editing this I tried nearly the last of a Farmerleaf sheng cake I have around, and I think most of that experience came across, two weeks after the first day I experienced symptoms.  I may not be at full sensitivity this coming weekend, several days away, but I'll probably try out reviewing again anyway.  Food is back to being enjoyable too; that's nice.

It would be good if I could include advice to people who get covid, about how to clear it fast, or to minimize these kinds of symptoms.  Try everything, I guess; lots of rest and fluids, take vitamins, drink tisanes, eat oranges and drink coconut water, if it's around.  My son had covid first and I made a huge pot of chicken soup for him and the family, and it was really nice for me to have that myself two days later.  A nasal rinse seemed to help a little; it's familiar to us to use saline and a syringe for that, to offset illness effects and clear nasal passages after swimming to avoid infections.

A friend going through her third round of covid mentioned getting some sun.  That would add vitamin D input, which is supposed to help, but I suspect that just resting doesn't ramp up metabolic activity enough to really get you past it, and getting sun might help restore a more normal metabolism.  For the first few days complete down-time probably is best, but it really seemed to help to get my body up and moving after a more normal energy level returned.  She recommended not getting drained of energy reserve, which goes without saying, but given how covid saps your strength balancing that part can be unique.

the subject is serious, but since we all had it I tried to keep my kids from being too fearful

Moychay tisane bars: Caucasus blend and Da Hong Pao with Willow Herb

 

the Caucasus herbs blend version

I've reviewed a few of Moychay's tisane bars in the past, including two from a recent set.  They were all really interesting and pleasant.  I wrote notes for one version two months ago and one a few weeks back but I've not collected them into a post, which I will here.  There is more on what is in these (although the one is fully defined here, the ingredients), and a vendor description, links, and pricing, all in this post, or their website tisane section is here.  These cost about $4 for 50 gram bars; not very much, especially for how good they are, and how unique.

It makes you wonder why the tisane / "herb tea" theme isn't something more common in "the West."  I was drinking mixes of tisanes back in the 90s, that just never evolved to be standard commercial products, or at least popular versions of them.  I remember drinking one called "Immuni-tea" blend from a local shop back then; they had health issues on their mind, and were already doing tea puns.  Chrysanthemum and a few others are around in Bangkok, but not so much back in the US.

I've also been using some of a pandan leaf and lemongrass tisane tea bag someone passed on for blending recently, mixing that with inexpensive Jing Mai sheng pu'er and adding a little chrysanthemum.  It works really well for something to brew "grandpa style" and drink while driving, since the tisanes can handle being brewed quite strong, and caffeine level drops out as a concern.  I'm still drinking plenty of caffeine doing that since the quantity I use is crazy; that should be scaled way back when you don't limit brewing time, and I just don't.  I'll often add room temperature or cool water to completely stop brewing, and to dilute it, so in a sense I am limiting brewing time, part of the time.

Back to the one Moychay real tea (oolong) and herb blend, this stood out because I really like their past pressed Da Hong Pao bar (this, but of course it's sold out now), and if I'm remembering right some earlier willow herb was also pleasant.  Any tisane can seem a little odd when you expect it to be like tea, or can give up complexity in relation to "real tea" character, but what I've tried of willow herb was complex and pleasant.  

I'm not sure how this half tea and half tisane blend works out to make sense for people, but then I guess I just did explain how I've been making a variation of that myself, and why results were positive.  Maybe it's as simple as that, that results are pleasant and limiting caffeine drops out as a concern, since the starting point is on the order of half that of tea (but I don't know the actual proportion).

The other Caucasus blend might have been my favorite of the set of a half dozen or so bars they sent.  It tasted like I remember Sleepy Time tasting, but I bet it was slightly better, given how complex and balanced it seemed.  Or maybe not; I'd have to re-try Sleepy Time, since it's been ages since I tried it (that Celestial Seasoning product).

Da Hong Pao and Willow Herb / Ivan Chay Review:

It's nice.  Again if you expect it to be just "real tea" it might seem off, or atypical.  There is a fairly limited astringency edge; not much of that at all.  There's an interesting warm and fruit flavor range, like dried cherry and cocoa.  Typical dark roasted oolong flavor doesn't stand out a lot in relation to those flavors, neither the higher end slight char edge or the warm mineral base.  To be clear DHP tend to not typically taste burned; the roast input usually settles at a lower level, but that does vary.

This is very nice if someone can appreciate that extra flavor complexity and range as a positive experience.  There's a lot going on, what I take to be cherry, cocoa, a mineral layer, and some non-distinct earthiness.  Intensity is fine.  It doesn't have much astringency edge, just a bit of fullness of feel, which is a little thin as regular teas tend to go.  There aren't flaws, beyond interpreting more that could be present as missing.  Tea expresses a broad range of sharp edge feel and taste effects that this lacks.  Even oolongs, which tend to be smooth and round, have a certain type of intensity of some flavor range, typically, an intense floral range, or creaminess, or other scope for more oxidized or roasted versions.  This is closer to how tisanes come across, but in the middle.

Using really hot water might bump intensity and edge a little; I used just off boiling point water, but skipped a step of prewarming a for purpose ceramic mug that comes with an infuser basket, my favorite device for Western style brewing.  Even then it seems like it's suited for a simple and easy to approach tea experience, like that blend of pandan, lemongrass, chrysanthemum, and Jing Mai sheng pu'er I mentioned brewing grandpa style out running errands.  Brewed light or really strong both would be nice, at the cost of this probably not supporting close scrutiny of Gongfu brewing transitions as well as a well above average quality Wuyi Yancha version would.  Not so different than most random Chinatown shop DHP or Shui Xian, in that regard.

It seems suitable to serve as a comfort tea, something to brew when you don't feel like messing around in the morning, or maybe more suited for afternoon break since caffeine level must be low.  For people not touchy about when they ingest lower doses of caffeine it could be an evening tea.  I would expect this to have similar stomach calming property as shu pu'er, since it's also earthy, smooth, and mild.  I never have stomach problems so in a sense I can't really tell for sure.

a second infusion I brewed a little less inky

I don't know about using it for blending; it's already a blend.  I bring that up because it's been interesting experimenting with the other two bars I've already tried that way, which work out to be better without mixing other things with them, but it's still interesting to try.  Someone could mess around adjusting balance by adding a little black tea or shu, but it's fine as it is.  I retried an inexpensive compressed Dian Hong version recently that might be perfect for that, a Yunnan Sourcing "drunk on red" version.  That tea was not a perfect match for my preference for being a bit tart (I hoped it would fade but it didn't drop out later), but that tartness wouldn't show up much mixed with this.

Caucasus Blend Review:

This is what this is:

Ingredients: Oregano, St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum), alpine thyme, mint, Epilobium willow-herb, sage, raspberry leaf, rose blossom, hawthorn fruit, rowan berries, rose-hip (Fructus Rosae).

Really nicely balanced!  I think the intended health effect is the thing with this, but it's nice that it holds up to a flavor review as well.  Mint stands out for being mint, but it's well-balanced beyond that.  Warm floral tones and a neutral base joins it.  I'm not going to have a lot more to add to that; it's a complex effect, a lot like chrysanthemum with another 4 or 5 things mixed with it. It's a lot like the Sleepytime mix of herbs, maybe leaning a little to the "Zen" blend from there, or maybe I'm remembering wrong and it was Zen.

And that's it; layers of subtle but complex flavor experience combine nicely. But I'm not going to describe it; it just tastes like mild herbs I'm mostly not familiar with, except the mint, and the way chrysanthemum is similar to one part of it.  Sage is my overall favorite plain tisane, and that's in this, but I can't notice it mixed together like that.  

Something in this gives it a feel not unlike that of shou mei, a bit on the full side.  Related to the overall experiential effect I could drink this every other day forever.  Anyone ordering any kind of teas from Moychay should probably add one of these to their cart, or two, since it's about $4.

As to health effects, that's anyone's guess, but it's probably healthy.  I would love to look into that part, and I will try to [which I didn't, a month later].  

I have retried the tea since and my impression is about the same.  It seems relatively complex and balanced as tisanes go; even for mixing them they often come across as one-dimensional, giving up feel and aftertaste range that add a lot to real tea experience.  I couldn't place it but somehow this comes across as complex.  Maybe it's just that a warm and mellow base, other herbs, some light floral and fruit range tones, and a high note touch of mint all balance.  Or feel could be helping.  I don't think it's just that I want and expect to like it, because that's true of all these bars I tried, and I did like all of them but not as much as this one.  It just works.

Moychay pressed tisane bars

I'm reviewing two pressed tisane bars from Moychay.  I've tried a couple in the past, which I really liked, so it was great seeing that they sent some along with some tea to try and review.  Again many thanks!

When I first looked up the versions the pricing seemed low ($4 per 50 gram bar, or about that).  Really tisanes tend to not cost a lot, so it's just a normal price, but for a well-designed blend and easy access processed form it seems quite fair.  I'm not familiar with such things being available here in Thailand or in the US market.  Tisane blends maybe, they just wouldn't be all that common, but those pressed as bars maybe not.  

For teas compressed forms are often used as a way to support convenient storage for aging, which I guess could relate to these, but in general it just seems like catchy and convenient form.  A half dozen bars take up very little space that way.  We bought a good bit of chrysanthemum in China two years ago and it's interesting seeing how it changes with age.  It's probably better now instead of worse, but really just different.

four more bars to try; nice

I never will really critique or evaluate these in relation to the mix of herbs.  I've tried looking up tisane health benefits before, and it's possible to make a start on that, but it would be really hard to check if a certain mix of herbs makes sense, or is likely to be healthier than taking any one random version.  I might look into that again, related to these.

I drank a lot of tisanes for awhile, for the better part of 20 years, but I just wouldn't overthink that part.  I bought versions and mixed them as seemed pleasant, hoping that maybe that health benefit part would work out on its own.  Sage was by far my favorite back then; I loved it so much that I wouldn't blend that, so I could enjoy it alone.  I was mixing all sorts of plant leaf, root, and bark versions beyond that, with some flowers mixed in but not nearly as much of that.  I should be able to say a lot more about other favorites but I gave up that habit when I moved here, 14 years ago.  Kind of a shame, since Thais drink other nice tisanes, but I got into tea as a result, so it worked out.

I'll put a description of everything they sent at the end, including the list of herbs and their descriptions, and just copy the ingredients part here for framing:

Romantic:  Blooming Sally, Ginger, Juniper berries, Red root, Anise, Hibiscus, Rose hip, Rowan chokeberry, Elder, Acacia inflorescences, Cardamom

Cherry Sea:  Fermented cherry leaf, Willow-herb, black, large-leaf, Tver region, Linden blossom, Hibiscus flowers (Karkade), Calendula

"Romantic" left, in all photos

Reviewing Romantic and Cherry Sea tisane blends:

a bit extra light, my normal approach

It goes without saying that Gongfu brewing herb blends is a bit strange.  It would be much more conventional to use a Western approach, to use a basket strainer or teapot and give them a 4 or 5 minute soak, and then another.  One would have to try both approaches to see what gets gained or lost in using either.  

In mentioning trying these online someone suggest that simmering it may work out really well.  It could; people tend not to simmer tea because what gets extracted after the first 8 to 10 minutes of hot water steeping isn't as positive, but in this case that may be the best approach.  Or just simmering it when mostly spent might be worth trying.  Then it occurred to me that if you simmer this mixed with an even amount of tea and then add water to dilute to a suitable level you would essentially replicate samovar brewing.

Romantic:  first infusion is so light a real review will start on the second, but I'll mention first impression anyway.  This is a bit tart, like a cranberry.  It's going in a really positive direction already though, sweet and complex.  The one trade-off related to tisanes, in comparison with "real tea," is that they include less flavor complexity, intensity, and other aspect range depth, less feel and aftertaste.  Blending can offset that, since brewing any one tisane (herb, flower, spice, etc.) only goes so far towards that.

Cherry:  again, tart.  What I interpret as hibiscus stands out, but there is more going on.   This reminds me of something I'm probably not going to place, some herb blend or single type I had much earlier in my tisane exploration.  Maybe Red Zinger, maybe something else.  I suspect that tartness is brewing out faster for some reason but these will pick up a lot of depth and balance soon enough.  Comparing the two some balancing warm tone really works better in the "romantic" version; I wonder what that is?  Again it's too early to call these.

a bit too strong; tisane infusion timing isn't very familiar

Romantic, second infusion:  I let this infuse for a bit over 20 seconds, a long soak by "real tea" standards.  It's a tisane; it will be fine.  I don't know what optimum will be but at least this will get transition moving [after trying it optimum is a shorter time].  Tartness still stands out but that warmth is strong enough that it contributes in an usual way.  It's a little like fennel seed; that kind of thing.  A cranberry sort of tartness and fruit range flavor is strongest, most pronounced.  There's a minty aftertaste.  And a lot of other aftertaste; usually tisanes don't work out like this.  Something in this is really naturally sweet.  I'd expect it all to come together even better once the parts all get infusing next round, but it's pleasant and interesting now.

Cherry Sea:  cranberry tartness is giving way to a tart cherry tartness.  It doesn't have quite as much depth as the other but plenty is going on.  Again I get the impression that this is still settling into where it will go for balance of inputs coming together.  For using a 4 minute soak at a much higher proportion all that would get combined, much like combining or "stacking" these first 4 or 5 infusions.  20+ seconds is a bit long though; 15 would be fine for this proportion.

It's interesting switching back to try the "Romantic" version after the cherry.  That warmer spice range makes it seem to have a lot more depth.  If the tartness eases up the blast of fruit in this second tisane blend could be really nice in a different way, but it sort of works for me tart like that.  It would be hard for one single tisane input to have the depth or range of either of these.

Romantic, third infusion:  I might have went too fast with these, under 10 seconds, but that will enable describing how infusion strength difference adjusts what comes across.  It's kind of unrecognizable, drinking the same blend infused half as long, with some transition for developing.  It's enough flavor, I think, but completely different.  Tartness is all but gone, probably much less pronounced at this infusion strength (what you taste shifts a lot with infusion strength, not just relative intensity).  

That warm tone is nice.  It comes across as linked to a warm and sweet aftertaste that lingers on the rear of your tongue.  Feel aspects tying to a tongue location is normal, but it's odd feeling like a taste sensation is there.  Not the rear of the throat either, as people describe over and over in relation to sheng pu'er, at the rear of the tongue in front of that part.

Cherry Sea:  much closer to how it had been last round than the first, just lighter.  Tartness isn't dropping out in the same way.  I suppose if someone hated tartness this just wouldn't work for them; a preference take on cranberries should determine that as well as anything.  It's coming across as complex in relation to a single tisane, but the other has lots more depth and range.  I suppose it could be that tartness will fade in this too, revealing something else, but it's just running behind the other.  

In tasting the first after the second it's not just the warmth and depth that comes across, it's a sweetness and flavor range I associate with either a bark or root spice (I'm guessing bark, but those two things come in such a broad range you can't really combine them).  One might think they know all about bark spices from cinnamon and root spices from ginger and ginseng but it's not like that, a lot more complicated.

Romantic, fourth infusion:  for once I'll need to wrap this up to go to bed; that's a novel potential related to drinking tisanes.  Or putting the kids to bed first, one last test of my patience before the end of the day.  To cite an example they are running a small floor vaccum in the other room now because the kitten hates it, so they're doing that to see how it reacts.  It's growling; we have a really grumpy older cat who taught her that vocabulary range.

This is actually starting to flatten out a bit, although I'd guess that it's far from spent.  Mixing those 4 infusions might have been better.  I'll stretch one more infusion for longer, over 30 seconds instead, and let this drop.  Warm range and spice depth is nice in this; that spice wasn't present in the same way before.  It's like a touch of black pepper, that kind of spice.  Since those bars break up into a good number of squares (9 per 50 grams, so 5 1/2 grams each) it's worth considering trying both mixed together.

Cherry Sea:  tartness will go the distance in this version, but it is subdued, as all the flavor intensity is dropping off a bit.  Going extra long on one early infusion probably pushed back where these would be by one infusion count.  This really could just be cranberry and willow herb, based on how it comes across.  I think lighter range inputs are giving it depth that's hard to appreciate as distinct flavors.

Both, fifth infusion:  largely faded, but a depth is hanging in there.  A trick from brewing "grandpa style" could probably draw more out of these, adding a touch of a fresh "tea" input to restore the rest of the experience range, without giving up the thinner base these can still provide.  I'm not sure what would work best for that; it wouldn't just have to be more of the same herb blend.  A bit of cacao husk with one of these would be really nice, or ground cacao nib (dark chocolate flavor, more or less, two parts of the plant used to make that).  That sounds like an American take on everything, doesn't it?  It's all better with chocolate, gravy, or cheese, just probably not all three together.

These bars really should have fantastic potential for cooking too.  Either one of these simmered and then used to make oatmeal would be great.  Or any number of other things I usually wouldn't even consider in relation to "real tea;" infused in white vinegar to make a salad dressing, or infused in vodka to make a mixed drink.  As for blending with tea I'm not so sure; that could be pushing it.

these photos cited from the Moychay site

Forest Silence:  

Blooming Sally green, Melissa, Tutsan, Raspberry, Medicinal lungwort, Badan, Rose hip, Pine buds

Healing and harmonious composition, heals the whole body, soothes and collects. The taste is not obtrusive, with the aroma and taste of a taiga forest, conveying the calmness and silence of a pine forest. 

Romantic (no site product description; a friend translated this one for me from the label)

Blooming Sally, Ginger, Juniper berries, Red root, Anise, Hibiscus, Rose hip, Rowan chokeberry, Elder, Acacia inflorescences, Cardamom

Caucasus herbal tea cake 

Ingredients: Oregano, St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum), alpine thyme, mint, Epilobium willow-herb, sage, raspberry leaf, rose blossom, hawthorn fruit, rowan berries, rose-hip (Fructus Rosae).

All ingredients are harvested by experienced herbalists in the Caucasus Mountains. The components and their respective proportions provide a balanced healing effect - immunity enhancing, digestion-normalizing and a strengthening of the nervous system. The bouquet is herbaceous-minty-fruity, the taste is rich, but without bitterness and astringency.

Cherry Sea

Fermented cherry leaf, Willow-herb, black, large-leaf, Tver region, Linden blossom, Hibiscus flowers (Karkade), Calendula

Calming

“Calming” is our pressed herbal blend made from wild plants.  Composition:

Willow-herb (Ivan-tea); Melissa; Rose hip; Linden flowers; Hibiscus sabdariffa flowers; Oregano; Hop (Humulus lupulus); Chamomile; St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum); Calendula

The recipe for blend and illustration was compiled by an expert of wild plants and a famous botanist in Russia - Natalia Georgievna Zamyatina.

Ivan (willow herb) in a red robe (Ivan-fermented Tea, cut leaf Da Hong Pao),

Willow-herb, black, large-leaf, Tver region; Da Hong Pao, broken leaf

The bouquet of the finished tea is warm, grain-spicy with floral, berry and woody notes. The aroma is rich, multifaceted. The taste is strong, juicy, silky, sweet, with a slight bitterness and a spark of spices.

Editing notes: that sounds fantastic.  I've tried a Da Hong Pao pressed bar from them that was just great before, and it could match really well with willow herb / Ivan chay.

Hawaiian tisane / "herb teas" and health benefits

Awhile back I reviewed a Hawaiian tisane (herb) blend, a combination of mamaki and wapine (a version of lemongrass and something else less familiar, with details in that post about what that is).  It was from a Hawaiian close family friend from a producer called Rocky Farms, located in Waimanalo. 

usually there were a few people around, but not different than this (credit)

That family friend (an extra uncle, sort of an in-law to me since they took in my wife more than me) lives in Waimanalo, and that whole small community area looks like you stepped into a postcard.

Since these posts tend to run long I'll go with that theme and quote a part of that post content about an herb here (referenced from here, with even more information here):


Mamaki is a native Hawaiian nettle species known as an ancient miracle herb. Mamaki tea is best known for its refreshing, smooth taste and medicinal uses. It is known to act as an antioxidant that promotes healthy cardiovascular functions, lowers stress and fatigue levels and acts as a mild laxative. It is also commonly used to reduce allergy symptoms and promote liver Health.


It's hard to evaluate those sorts of health claims, and more typical for tea reviews to just not bring them up.  I won't get far with a flavors review here, instead dealing more with accounts of health benefits (not endorsing or rejecting those, just sharing them), and more about local related resources in Oahu.

I think tea (the Camellia Sinensis kind) and other herbs probably are very healthy but it's hard to go further than that with specific guesses, or to research the subject.  Input turns up but it can be hard to place.  If the claim is that an herb helps with an upset stomach of course that can be tested, or a laxative effect can be, but for most of those already listed in that short passage would be more difficult to evaluate. 

a vendor photo with more information, apparently sold as RTD (credit)

Review

The herb blend I tried tastes like those herbs.  Turmeric stands out a little, but then it might not seem to as much without appearing on the label.  The flavor is mild with some complexity, with a bit of sweetness and decent balance, nice enough.  The other flavor range reminds me of floral flavors that aren't necessarily sweet or overly aromatic, like chrysanthemum or chamomile.  There's also a vague, light spice background element, not one that's easy to place.  I'd probably drink light oolong that's in the same general range instead for taste if it came down to just that, and of course people do make health claims about those too.  It's pleasant tasting enough that I'd also drink it just for taste if I had it around, and for me it's nice to have tisanes--herb teas, to some--in the evenings sometimes, since I avoid caffeine then.

That's all I'll cover for flavor description.  To me health claims are more interesting, even if I tend to not accept those as necessarily accurate.  That skepticism is based on experience with lots of claims being made about tea, which seem to extend too far for all of them to be accurate.  For "real tea" those are based on traditional practices or medical care, sources like Traditional Chinese Medicine.  That could be a good input, but one ends up suspecting that some of the modern marketing function may have tied back to previous marketing functions instead of an earlier form of higher knowledge.  The framing doesn't help, references to "qi" and "internal heat / wind," but really valid practices framed in contexts that have been replaced with modern models could still be just as valid and accurate. 

Back to description

Per the written note this contained that mamaki (version of nettle), olena (Hawaiian version of turmeric), and ualoa.  That vendor picture of the same Mala blend listed it as uhaloa, olena, and wapine (lemongrass), so off by one ingredient.  I could swear the mamaki is common to both, as shown in this earlier blend photo, but then later it does look more like uhaloa (see later description and photo):

reviewed in the last post

Wapine is the lemongrass; easy enough to spot, and it does seem to turn up in this second Mala blend.  It would be easy to mix the herbs up when sending a note with it; no matter.  Let's review the turmeric (olena) health claims then come back to uhaloa.

Olena / turmeric health claims

Turmeric is regarded as some sort of miracle health input per some "progressive" or non-mainstream health sources.  Not as if it's a research summary site but let's see what WebMD makes of that (summarized):

possibly effective for hay fever, depression, high cholesterol, osteoarthritis, itching (pruritus).


They then go on to list out as many conditions there is evidence it doesn't help with (surely based on other hearsay claims that it does), and a list twice as long related to benefit claims there just isn't good evidence to support or imply are probably not accurate.  Note that the general theme there is that they are citing what has been confirmed through research as likely (in the initial claim), and rejecting what seems unlikely based on research.  WebMD isn't a research status summary; one can do better, but the point here is to get a feel for where these claims stand, not try to ground them.

It's very difficult to do isolated studies on people to prove nutritional or preventative claims, so unless there is a clear linkage to a negative effect it's hard for research to come to a firm conclusion.  Studies can show what a limited input over a short time causes, or test high doses on rats.

Another article there on WebMD is more positive, and more colorful and speculative:


A tablespoon of ground turmeric offers 29 calories, nearly a gram of protein, 2 grams of fiber and 6 grams of carbohydrates. It contains minerals such as manganese, phosphorus and potassium. Turmeric also contains magical nutrients -- the kind that practically cast spells to keep you strong and healthy.

Turmeric is used in Ayurvedic medicine to treat inflammation -- both inside and out. Uses include cancer prevention and treatment as well as treatment of rheumatoid arthritis and infections.  Curcumin, a substance in turmeric, is being researched for cancer prevention and treatment, and has shown promise in animal studies... 


That one Hawaiian herb vendor (Maui Medicinal) lists even more potential benefits on their page.  Turmeric probably is a beneficial dietary input, even without the benefit of magic.  Let's move onto the last one, uhaloa.

the live version (photo credit)

Uhaloa background and claimed health benefits

The University of Hawaii related site I referenced in that earlier post passes on a full description (that's one of my alma maters, by the way; I went to UH Manoa awhile back):

Waltheria indica var. americana (uhaloa)

ʻUhaloa (Waltheria indica) belongs to the Malavaceae or Mallow family, sometimes placed in Sterculiaceae, or Cacao family. The genus Waltheria has some 60 species, 53 of which are from the Neotropics (the Americas). Two species are native to the Hawaiian Islands...

Hawaiian Names:  ʻAlaʻala pū loa, hala ʻuhaloa, hiʻaloa, kanakaloa are all alternate names for the commonly used ʻuhaloa...

Modern Use:  Medicinally, in the Hawaiian Islands ʻuhaloa is still used even if other traditional plants are not always in use. [6] When mixed with certain other plants ʻuhaloa is used for sore throats, bronchial infections, and asthma. [1,2] The bitter roots are used much like aspirin is today. [2]

This plant is used throughout the Americas. One reference source outlines the importance of Walthera indica: "A tropical shrub, the whole plant (roots, leaves, buds and flowers) is used against chronic asthma. This plant has anti inflammatory and antifungal properties. Other uses include: cortex (root bark); chewed as a very effective natural medicine for sore throat. Internally for arthritis, neuralgia, common cold, cough, bronchial phlegm or mucous, diarrhea, eye baths, fatigue; used as a bitter tonic." [5]

that does look right (photo credit)

Interesting!  That Rocky Farms picture source adds more to the health claims listed on that package:

'Uhaloa tea with bark. The leaves & flowers serves to treat (asthma), arthritis, neuralgia and pulmonary complications like bronchial phlegm, mucous and chest congestion. The bark is chewed to help with sore throat.

I also spoke with the Office of Hawaiian Affairs about doing research and they sent a really interesting looking reference citation, well worth following up for anyone interested in the subject (from "Native Planters in Old Hawaii:  Their Life, Lore and Environment," by E. S. Craighill Handy and Elizabeth Green Handy):

mamaki and uhaloa are mentioned

That book costs $700 on Amazon; you'd have to really want it.  All the claims do seem to align, but then that doesn't confirm them as accurate since it could relate to common sourcing.  I bet these herbs are very healthy, and it would only matter if effectiveness related to one condition was limited (or related to a different cause, so only ineffective in one case), if someone was trying to use that as a cure or preventative for something in particular.  

Rather than stick with the review of health claims, which is hard to extend further, I'll switch topics and say more about local medicinal herb resources there in Hawaii (East Oahu, more specifically, still in that same area).

Waimanalo's Community Herbal Medicine Garden

Looking around at subject references, most specifically related to that Waimanalo origin area, turned up mention of the Waimanalo Health Center there, focused on renewing use of medicinal herbs.  A recent media article described that background:

lotus?  it's a random picture from that Center's FB page.

Lāʻau lapaʻau is the traditional Hawaiian practice of healing using plants. Practitioners list an arsenal of more than 2,500 plants used for various human ailments.   

“Lāʻau lapaʻau is a fading art. I wouldnʻt say dying art, but its fading,” says [Ikaika] Rogerson, “Hopefully by being able to teach the community even just the basic different varieties of lāʻau that we have within the community and how to use it then maybe itʻs an alternative...an alternative to purchasing pills.”

This is part of why I'm open and optimistic about use of herbs either as a medicinal or dietary supplement.  I can't be certain that traditional herbs could be used as directly as conventional medicine (which isn't ideal either), but there's a long history of plants used effectively for both purposes.

People on the skeptical side point out that if a compound is confirmed to have a benefit it's adopted for use but that misses part of the point.  If that skeptic is eating a McDonald's based diet along with a handful of pills a day they're not going to be nearly as healthy as someone eating a balanced diet that includes fresh fruits, vegetables, diverse foods, and some herb / tisanes for additional input.  I don't buy that taking any number of pills a day would provide a similar benefit.

olena / turmeric (source credit)

They mention this about turmeric in that last article:  

'Olena or turmeric, one of the most versatile plants in traditional Hawaiian herbal medicine can be used for a number of ailments. Juice is extracted from the root and can be used to enhance the immune system and purify the blood.

Detox skeptics might feel a little "triggered" by that last claim since the kidneys and liver purify the blood, not medicine or supplements, but again valid health benefits and accurate use of updated models and terms are two separate issues.  According to that WebMD source turmeric is shown through research evidence to lower triglyceride levels and possibly reduce cholesterol, qualified as follows:

Turmeric seems to lower levels of blood fats called triglycerides. The effects of turmeric on cholesterol levels are conflicting. There are many different turmeric products available. It is not known which ones work best.

Not a strong endorsement, that middle part, but then this is passing on multiple sources of research evidence for study still in progress as a very short summary, and "findings conflict" would be a natural result.

Post-script; trying to apply all that

This has always been the part that's a problem for me; how to apply that information.  That Hawaii.edu plant background database looks great, quite solid as such content goes, but it doesn't seem like it would work well to scan through that and know what herbs to use for treatment or preventative purposes.  You could try, but it seems limited and not designed for that.

I've talked to a couple of people trained in the use of herbs as both (herbalists?) and of course their recommendation is to go to someone with similar training and get consultation input.  I'm usually skeptical when answers inevitably turn to "just pay me" but in this case there aren't many good options.  Progressive-minded health enthusiasts (odd putting that in any phrasing) tend to pick and mix what they want to buy into, from a broad range of sources, the herbal health equivalent of salad bar faith.  Maybe that works. 

I didn't get around to talking to her but Leina‘ala Bright seems to work in a similar capacity in the Waimanalo Health Center I'd mentioned (although I really don't know her duties or their range of services).  Some input in a reference they passed on from her research at UH adds more about why turmeric probably really does live up to at least some of the claims:

That source includes a reference of her as a researcher and "Cultural Practitioner of Lomilomi, Lā‘au Lapa‘au;" that works.

Incorporating use of tisanes might work better than one might expect for the same reason tea is almost certainly living up to a lot of it's variously grounded cited benefits:  if you replace soda with tea you are at least eliminating a negative with a neutral input, even if not a positive one, and some of the component benefits are probably real.  Anyone replacing boba tea--powdered, artificially flavored, heavily sweetened, products containing powdered milk or other fats and thickeners--with real tea is taking a similar step.

I recently had an opportunity to use this herbal tisane more directly, when I picked up a stomach problem from my kids and threw up a few times.  I was wary of drinking even water because not long before I'd seen my daughter try to drink water with the same condition and it didn't work out.  I drank a mug of this tisane (related to some of this research saying one herb calms an upset stomach), and my stomach did feel much better, and then I was able to handle another small glass of electrolyte solution. 

the morning Kalani was sick; I think positive outlook alone helps a lot

I'd love to be able to incorporate herbs and other tisanes in a way that makes more sense over the long term but at least making that start into useful application was nice.

Pine needle tisane ("herb tea"), nutritional / medicinal uses research

In a discussion of a recent blog post about making pine needle tisane (herb tea, to some) someone commented with references on pine needle infusion nutritional and medicinal properties.  Online discussion somehow never works out like that, with someone contributing both insightful content and good reference links.

Norway spruce (left) and red pine, fresh picked versions

This first source they mentioned was a general reference, with a good mix of information about history and uses of pine needle tisane (from here  medicinalfoodnews.com/articles/pine-needle-tea):


Boasting four to five times the amount of Vitamin C found in a lemon, pine needle tea has been a medicinal favorite of indigenous peoples for centuries and is said to have helped scurvy-afflicted European settlers survive their first winter in the New World. Also high in fat-soluble Vitamin A - an antioxidant essential for healthy vision, skin and hair regeneration and red blood cell production, it is frequently prescribed by herbalist healers as an expectorant to thin mucus secretions; furthermore, it can be used as an antiseptic wash when cooled. Different varieties of pine have their own flavor, so some drinkers mix and match to find the taste they like best.


As related background on the last point, I tried four different pine needle infusions in that review post and they did vary, but all of them tasted quite similar, "piney."  I tried blending a couple at one point, and the mix was interesting, but they shared a lot of common ground.  I'd expect someone would typically either like all of them, and also blends of types, or hate them all instead.

The point here is to research nutrition or even potential medicinal use though, so back to that.

chopped fresh pine needles, hemlock pine (lower left) and white pine

What about a summary site like WebMD?  That's not exactly the last word on confirmed medical or nutritional facts, but here is their take:


Pine is a tree. People use the sprouts, needles, and bark to make medicine...  Pine is used for upper and lower respiratory tract swelling (inflammation), stuffy nose, hoarseness, common cold, cough or bronchitis, fevers, tendency towards infection, and blood pressure problems.  Some people apply pine directly to the skin for mild muscle pain and nerve pain.


So far so good, although the general "some people think that..." angle doesn't inspire confidence.  That first article (here) also went into some cautions; it's good to also keep in mind potential negative issues related to following online medical or supplement advice:


A few words of caution: while there are over 100 different varieties of pine, the Ponderosa, Norfolk Island and Yew needles should be avoided, as brewing can prove toxic. You’ll want to collect your needles from trees at a distance from the roadside to be sure they haven’t been exposed to exhaust or chemicals, and far away from dump sites. Women who are pregnant or may become pregnant should avoid pine needle tea as it has been linked by some sources to miscarriage.


Related to that recent review post on lapsang souchong, the Chinese black tea said to be made using pine needle smoke to flavor tea leaves, it makes you wonder which pines are being used for that.  Hopefully not those toxic varieties.

hemlock pine (not the same plant that killed Socrates)

Another research paper source goes into more about possible health benefits:


Pine trees (Pinus densiflora) belong to the family Pinaceae and are widely distributed around the world. In East-Asian countries such as Korea and China, various parts of pine trees, including the needles, cones, cortices, and pollen, are widely consumed as foods or dietary supplements to promote health [4]...  In addition, pine needle drinks have been used as folk medicine, to treat hypertension for example [5]. Moreover, pine needles have been shown to inhibit leukemia cell growth [6] and protect against oxidative DNA damage and apoptosis induced by hydroxyl radicals [7]. For the remainder of the biological effects of pine needles, those from extracts of similar materials (i. e. pine bark) have pharmacological, antioxidant activity, antiproliferative, and antiimflammatory actions [8,10].


I'm not so sure about all that but a research-oriented reference does have a much more authoritative ring to it than some personal web page.  It's not easy to prove broad claims though, so regardless of the source sounding promising there's no guarantee those claims are accurate.  A close read shows them to not be even presented as conclusive as they might seem at first.

snowball fight battle, with lots of potential "tea" in the background

That paper isn't a light read, and even their clear and condensed summary sounds like the results could benefit from another level of interpretation:


Proanthocyanidins, known as condensed tannins, are among the oldest of plant secondary metabolites. These compounds are widespread in woody plants, but are also found in certain forages. Catechins and proanthocyanidins are strong antioxidants and are associated with many useful biological effects of tea and other plant products. The effects of bioflavonoids extracted from pine on free radical formation have already been investigated in murine macrophage cell lines, and strong scavenging activities against reactive oxygen species were exhibited [26]. 


There's more, that was just the clear, easy-to-read summary part.  The general point here is that they did site actual studies (more in the first citation, and another here) but this article is itself a summary of potential benefits with reference to compounds that may be causes for those effects.  It's not a summary of limited, specific findings and confirmed conclusions.  They're not saying that pine needle use as a tisane could cure cancer, lower blood pressure, or serve as an antibiotic, but they are summarizing a range of potential positive effects, some based on tradition, and also mentioning some related research.  This is one form of academic study that comes up but it's not the same as targeted research that tries to support or present limited evidence against narrow hypothesis based on targeted and controlled study.


The last research article mentioned in that discussion is addressing the anti-bacterial claims part, not so much as a survivalist wound-wash treatment, but in relation to potential for use as a food washing agent:


The antibacterial activity of water-soluble extract from pine needles of Cedrus deodara (WEC) was evaluated on five food-borne bacteria, and its related mechanism was investigated by transmission electron microscope. In vitro antibacterial assay showed that WEC possesses a remarkable antibacterial activity against tested food-borne bacteria including Escherichia coli, Proteus vulgaris, Staphylococcus aureus, Bacillus subtilis and Bacillus cereus...  In a food system of fresh-squeezed tomato juice, WEC was observed to possess an effective capacity to control the total counts of viable bacteria. Shikimic acid was isolated from WEC and identified as the main antibacterial compound. All results of our study suggested that WEC might be a new potential source of natural antibacterial agents applicable to food.



Sounds so promising!  And this reads a bit more like actual research (although broader summaries citing other works instead of conducting testing do serve a purpose, just a different one).

snowy winter scene

Related to these findings, instead of as a food wash this might also support that one of those survivalist guys could just use a pine-based infusion for washing wounds, as mentioned in the other source.  Or maybe for washing their own vegetables, back to the point here, since they wouldn't have any vinegar or baking soda or related commercial products on hand.


The take-away:  with some deeper reading some really interesting and potentially very well grounded ideas about some obscure subjects can be turned up.  There seems to be a lot of potential for pine needle tisane / "tea," related to nutritional properties or possibly in relation to targeted health benefits.


At this point these other medicinal benefits seem to be based on traditional medicine use, already accepted by some practitioners, with a limited degree of supporting positive findings from research.  It seems this includes potential for pine needle infusions to be used as a medicinal antiseptic wash or as a food-sanitizing wash, although in modern society there would already be commercial alternatives for such purposes.


All of this might work best in the stranded-in-the-woods or end-of-the-world scenarios, but there seems to be no reason why an ordinary person with access to a modern society couldn't use pine needle infusions for the same purposes.  And to me it even tasted nice.


Everything I encountered on preparation seemed to be pointing towards using fresh pine needles to prepare infusions, but it occurred to me that if a dried ingredient version possessed similar characteristics then an entire Christmas tree could be converted for use as a tisane.  One might wonder about use of fertilizer or pesticides, since those trees wouldn't have been produced with food-related use in mind, but it might not be much of an issue for pine trees.  My grandparents ran a small Christmas tree farm and those trees really didn't require pest protection or fertilization to thrive, the same as those pictured here at my parents' house in Pennsylvania.