Vietnamese oolong and fishhook style green tea

 

I'm trying out a couple more samples from Viet Sun, sent along with ordering a really nice sheng and black tea not long ago.  They sent a second "forest origin" type of green tea, which would make a lot more sense to compare with the fishhook / standard Thai Nguyen version range, but this sounds good to me, comparing oolong and green tea experience.  

In general it's better to comparison taste as similar teas as you can, not mixing styles or character, because you'll notice more fine differences instead of just that you are trying two types at once.  I've been through it lots of times though; it gets easier to sort out with exposure.

I'll brew these using water not so far off boiling, maybe 90 C.  I've measured output temperature from a filtration system that also heats water at our house before, but I don't remember that outcome.  It's too hot for Western brewing approach optimum for green tea, per most people's opinion, but it's normal in Vietnam to use hot water to brew green tea, and to be ok with the stronger flavor profile and additional astringency that results.  I can cool a round and check the difference [or switch to using cooler water across all the rounds, as it turned out, because that tea is really intense].

Related to the Viet Sun black tea and sheng I've been drinking, from Lao Cai and Song La, respectively, I like them more and more as I keep drinking them.  It's possible for a novel, complex, and refined good tea version to really stand out when you first try it and then for you to not feel as much connection over time, as you keep drinking it.  Sometimes even more basic versions can match what you really like, and can seem better to drink more of.  Those teas are pretty good initially, and they also seem well-suited for drinking regularly, which of course relates to my own preference, not some aspects or form of balance that one wouldn't tire of.

The oolong I have no clear expectations of; that makes it more interesting.  If the fishhook style green is a good version of a style I've drank a number of examples of that should be good.  Those tend to be floral and also vegetal, but not necessarily grassy, intense in character with heavy flavors, and a pronounced mineral base.  It's that "heavy flavors" part that makes them seem distinct from other green tea range, which I typically like.

Per usual I'll add more of Viet Sun's description after I try these and make tasting notes.  There was no listing for the "Thai Nguyen Fish Hook Green, Autumn 23;" it's either not there yet or already sold out, or maybe never will be listed.

Sunset Oolong, Autumn 22 (edited slightly; the listing is long.  It sells for $35 for 100 grams).

A strip style oolong produced from old/ ancient Shan Assamica varietal trees growing in the Hoàng Su Phì area of Hà Giang in Autumn of 2022.

This is a unique tea. Assamica oolongs are typically much harsher than their Sinensis counterparts so processing and storage play a major role in the production of this tea. If you've tried the 2020 version of this tea you'll surely notice how different the 2022 version looks and tastes. 

The producer decided to go with a lighter oxidation and drying temperature in order to preserve more of the natural essence of this tea. They also mentioned that they think that this lighter overall processing method requires less of a storage period before the tea starts to come into its prime. 

The flavor is complex. I pick up notes of savory warming spices with a peppery floral fragrance and a bit of green freshness. There are notes of medium oxidized oolong, Oriental Beauty and Dian Hong. Thick sweetness with a medium-thick body depending on how strong you brew it. It has this softening effect that spreads and finishes with a bit of a tannic bite.

I like brewing it at 90-100 degrees for shorter and then longer steeps.

Season: Autumn 2022

Picking Standard: 1 bud, 2-3 leaves

Region: Hoàng Su Phì, Hà Giang

Elevation: 1200m

All of that aspect description works; I won't comment on it further later on here.  I did already compare this to Oriental Beauty in notes.  

Variety Assamica oolongs tend to just be bad, not only a little more harsh, but that's probably related to many examples being experimental, and producers needing time to adjust processing inputs to get it to work.  I might've tried two that were good, both from Vietnam, and more decent Indian versions that seemed nothing like oolong, which is something else.  Of course until I had tried those I considered whether the plant type range might just not be suitable for that processing approach, if typical leaf compounds didn't match up, but it's not that, it's about not getting them right.

Review:

Sunset Oolong:  that's so nice!  It's a little too light still, normal for how I usually prepare a first round, but there's a really pleasant sweetness and flavor profile.  There's a lot going on; it might taste a bit like fruit cake, that mix of warm, rich flavors, including a bit of spice, along with brighter and complex mixed dried fruit.  I'll have more luck with a flavor list next round though.

Thai Nguyen Fish Hook Green:  the umami level is insane in this.  I can compensate for brewing two kinds of tea by flash brewing this version from here on out.  It might work to add a touch of cold water to this too, to try brewing it at a more conventional 70 - 75 C range early on (roughly; I don't weigh or measure anything), before cooking it for too many rounds.  Vegetal range is heavy, and intense, not so far off kale.  That must sound rougher than this comes across, and adjusting outcome by brewing it using cooler water and faster infusion times would change a lot, or backing off proportion.  I don't want that to sound like I'm describing brewing around flaws though; this is more or less how it should be.

If anything this is a much better quality version than I'm accustomed to.  You can see that in the finer leaf form, which helps with cranking up intensity, and it's clear in the flavor outcome too.  It's vegetal though; it wouldn't be for everyone.  Kale is joined by spinach and celery; it's really vegetal.  The strong mineral base is nice, and sweetness is good, helping the rest balance.  Probably by altering brewing approach you could get more floral range out of it, and just brewing intensity lighter would shift to an experience of lighter flavor range.  But it is what it is too; someone not into vegetal green teas shouldn't be drinking this.  

In other versions that mineral range can dominate more, not as a base for other flavors, but as a primary input, which wouldn't necessarily be ideal for people looking for more of a black tea or oolong oriented experience, but it balances differently.  It lingers so long in aftertaste for this version that I'll need to drink a good bit of water between rounds to get it to clear.  I've tried white teas that taste like less than the plain water I drank to clear that aftertaste; a nice sweet flavor aftertaste keeps going, and doesn't clear out fast. 

It's my understanding that people in Vietnam value that high intensity and somewhat harsh feel in green tea experience, that over time they come to like being blasted by it.  As a sheng drinker I get it; it's never enough until it's a little too much.

Sunset oolong, 2:  it's interesting how the first thing you notice drinking this is a "man that's good!" reaction.  The sum is greater than the parts; none of the aspects add up to account for how pleasant it comes across.  I think feel might be part of that, that there's a richness to it, a way that it coats your whole mouth, that adds depth far beyond the flavor.  It's sweet and rich in flavor too, but not necessarily that complex or intense.  In terms of a list of all the flavors probably adding together it's probably very complex, but those are all subtle enough that it seems simple when you taste it.  Let's get to that list.

Sweetness includes a warmth like a honey range, or maybe that's light caramel instead.  There is fruit but it's so non-distinct there's no way to list out what it probably includes; maybe some dried fruit range, could be something like cooked pear (included here as a guess to point towards a range, more than a description).  Warmth seems to also include a spice tone, and a rich and deep underlying feel is more similar to sassafras (like one part of root beer), or if that's not familiar leaning a little towards yam.

I bet if I kept drinking this tea I'd change my mind about that whole list, and describe it in completely different terms.  That part is interesting, how an overall pleasant effect is clear but what is going into creating that is not.

Thai Nguyen fishhook green:  I brewed this quite light, mixing in cold water and brewing it fast.  I didn't want to err on the side of saying I should've went further with that adjustment.  Character is completely different, of course.  Floral range does ramp up; it's probably more dominant than the vegetal range.  Or maybe this is really a mix of light and subtle floral tones and completely different vegetal range, like sugar-snap peas (mostly that flavor in particular; not just like that).  Sweetness dominates the basic taste effect, the context, where mineral and heavier range had before.  There is still some umami in this, plenty of it, but nothing like the earlier level, or the earlier effect from that.  Not so many teas are capable of shifting character this much related to brewing approach differences.

So in the end it's sweet, light, bright, including plenty of floral tones, and light and sweet sugar snap pea vegetable.  Mineral base still grounds it but in nothing like the earlier form or intensity.  If this green tea version hadn't been off the scale in intensity using a hot water and quick brewing approach would've been more practical and appropriate.  These really fine leaves seem to extract lots and lots of flavor very quickly, with limited need for exposure to heat to push that along.  I'll try it brewed slightly hotter and longer next round and see what it's like more in the middle, but not back at that "just off boiling point" temperature level, still a bit cooler.

Sunset oolong 3:  the one sweet and rich range seems to be what is making this so appealing, somewhere along the lines of caramel or molasses.  You could push this tea much harder; maybe next time I'll let it brew for over 20 seconds to see what that changes.  Then it's odd how the intensity of the other requires being careful about that, limiting it to a range that's still approachable, without someone acclimating to super strong tea instead, and just going for it.  

The fruit seems to include an apricot note; it could be that a catchy form of fruit is another part of what makes this so nice.  It's quite subtle at the same time, which is interesting, how an overall impression is different than how the individual aspects seem.

Thai Nguyen Fishhook green:  that balance is ok, embracing it being more intense, including heavier flavors, and strong underlying mineral tone, but still also including the light, sweet, and fresh range.  To be clear I really don't like grassy green teas, and green tea is my least favorite broad category (besides something like flavored teas; those don't count in the same way, and some can be ok).  

I like this more than I would expect to based on the flavor range, or that would be true if I hadn't experienced that with fishhook style green teas a few times in the past.  The mineral base and savory range, the umami, give it an interesting balance and overall effect.  Some Japanese green teas work out like that, and an aspect range I typically don't like so much really works.  For them that seems to tie directly to quality too, so that if I'm thinking of heavy umami and seaweed flavor teas I don't like that's more about cheaper and rougher versions where it doesn't all tie together as well.

Oolong 4:  I don't think I have the patience today for 6 or 7 rounds of tasting, for describing how these keep evolving.  It's mid-afternoon and I've not had lunch yet, which is going to be a single meal covering lunch and dinner for running so late.  This will do.

It's hard to place this in relation to other oolong styles, to say what it reminds me of.  It's quite oxidized, so maybe along the lines of a "red oolong," which I guess relates to Dong Ding as much as any other more established origin range or style.  It's just its own thing though.  Pretty much always when you try a one-off style and material input version positive aspects can come up but overall balance is missing something, and it doesn't connect and work perfectly, feel might not be ok, aspect range might not integrate, or it can seem unrefined, etc.  But this is good.  This really should include an extra flaw or two that it doesn't, or at least some aspect gap or imbalance.  They did well.

More aspects and description would come up in a more detailed single version review that pushed the tea harder, bumping infusion time, using full boiling point water, dialing in an optimum timing.  I bet with more of that comparison with Oriental Beauty style would make more sense, the way honey sweetness, dried fruit, and spice combine in those.  I think that's not occurring to me here as much because it's like that but the comparable range isn't directly one for one.  The spice tone and fruit are similar but different.  This might be closest to an Oriental Beauty version where they've not pushed the oxidation level all the way to the edge of typical black tea range, or into it, as tends to come up.

Fishhook green:  the balance is nice in this, the way heavy umami stands out, with good sweetness mineral base not far beyond that.  It's still more vegetal than floral, but using slightly cooler water and a lighter infusion strength pulls that way back from the heavy kale, spinach, and celery range.  Anyone entirely opposed to drinking vegetal green tea would still hate this, but it's well balanced.  This version is much closer to typical Japanese green tea range than any fishhook style green tea I've tried before.  For me that being good or bad depends on the final aspect balance, with quality level tied to that, and to me this works well.

To be clear on that context I wouldn't buy a tea like this, or any Japanese green teas; I love sheng pu'er most, then a limited range of black teas, then oolongs, which come in a broad range, then maybe interesting white tea versions after that.  Shu pu'er can be ok, and hei cha can be interesting, but maybe it makes sense to just leave them off the list.  I can appreciate what this green tea is, and how good it is, but that range just isn't a close match to what I like most in tea experience, or next most, and so on.  This oolong version I could probably drink 500 grams of and probably not get tired of it, but buying their Son La sheng and Lao Cai black tea instead was a better choice for me; those are closer matches to what I like most.

For someone exploring novel and interesting tea range, earlier in a sorting out process, this green tea could take on a different meaning.  You could cover related range trying Japanese green teas, but they wouldn't be quite as novel, for fitting into a paradigm slightly better.  That's only true in general; at higher quality levels things tend to shift a bit, and range of novelty and higher potential opens up, but you'd need to be open to a higher level of spending to experience that in Japanese teas.

It's generally bad form to mention alternative sources in a review post but let's go there.  I think Trident Cafe and Booksellers would be a great source for way above average green teas at very fair prices.  They list some really interesting Japanese green teas, and versions from other places, all starting at $10 per ounce (28 grams).  That's actually a pretty good price for teas in that high demand at that quality level.  I was going to compare that to this tea's listing on the Viet Sun site, but it's not there (sold out for now?).  Anyway, the other forest green tea listed, the only green tea, they sell for $7 for 25 grams, or $22 for 100 (or $51 for 250; you get a great deal at volume, but only if you know you like the tea, since having a lot that you don't like isn't helpful).  Trident's sales isn't set up like that; you keep paying $10 for 28 more grams, which I think is still fair, but it's up to $40 for 112 grams.  It probably should be more, for what they sell.

The general point here, which might already be clear, is that if you can find very interesting and higher quality tea versions from lower demand areas sometimes you can get amazing values for that tea.  Not always; some boutique Indian outlets sell the best of the best versions from there for full Western boutique outlet market rates, up around the 40 cents a gram level, which I guess still makes sense.  There's very little of that highest end Indian tea demanded or made, so however that balances out is what it is.

This oolong is something else, seemingly a one-off.  Teas like that cost whatever they happen to be sold for, and there's no market rate to go by.  $35 for 100 grams is fair in relation to what other remotely comparable quality and aspect range teas would sell for, and probably Oriental Beauty versions roughly as good and somewhat similar in style would tend to cost even more, but nothing else would seem exactly like it.

How to meditate

I was talking to an online friend recently who asked for input about meditation.  I'm not exactly an expert, probably closer to the opposite, just someone who dabbles a bit, but I have been meditating quite a bit lately, averaging more than half an hour a day for 2 1/2 months.  

I was ordained as a Thai Buddhist monk 16 years ago, and I received formal training in meditation in a center at that time (daily training sounds strong; I visited the center, at least, but their input was limited).  I was only a monk for a bit over 2 months, which might sound short, but it's nearly two months longer than the standard stay of two weeks for a younger Thai man to temporarily ordain.  That part is complicated; let's get back to the meditation theme, leaving out my background about a couple of other short term trial periods, the first of which was way back when.

That discussion and input covered what seated meditation is about, not intended as comprehensive background or complete practical advice.  I'll add some thoughts afterward, but never will cover either in lots of detail.  This is basically that input word for word, not adjusted much: 

Of course it's complicated, and people would say different things, and I'm not really some sort of expert.

Your experience would change over time, and probably your approach with it. Initial expectations could also vary, with people seeking different goals.

Probably it's best to set aside what benefits might occur, even though intention and perspective are the main starting points. Let's say that you want to experiment, and maybe increase mental clarity, patience, and a limited degree of insight into your own nature, and that of experienced reality. That works.

A main initial factor will be your tolerance for sitting, how it feels physically. If you plan to sit for only 10 minutes I think that won't be an issue, but within 15 to 20 it probably would be. Maybe adjusting by starting out with short sessions is good, so you don't have to work through too much related to that part. We all carry tension in our bodies much more than we realize and use constant movement to work through it, on a subconscious level. Being still triggers a negative response of tensing up more. For 10 minutes it should still be fine though.

Mentally, internally, there are different types of practices. I've trained some and the range of what I've heard and experienced doesn't narrow down well, but I'll narrow it anyway.

The idea is to still your mind, to an extent. It won't work to take up internal quietude, so next it turns to how to approach that, not to resolve the noise but to work through it. Watching your breath is a common technique, or focusing attention at some point in your body, often the stomach at or around your navel. To focus on breathing you can focus on a point where it moves, in and out of the tip of your nose, or for me focusing on relaxing and breathing from your diaphragm works better.

If your mind is a real mess of noise counting can help with that. As it settles some turning to focus attention on breathing at your stomach can work better. The mental practice is about how to deal with random thoughts, or daydreams. Common advice is to acknowledge thoughts and let them go, to not keep following them. That sounds more like stifling thought than it ends up relating to. You can't force your mind to stop thinking. You can gradually let it settle over time. In 10 minutes, even practicing for days on end, you might not seem to experience mental quietude, but it can settle some.

There is potential usefulness in the noise. You already know which lines of thought you continually return to, what your concerns are, but you might be avoiding directly experiencing these, and accepting them can be helpful. It's possible that insight could occur, a part that you haven't considered, but at first you experience noise, then acceptance of the issues can help quiet that some, then a more calm but still random thoughts based inner experience can seem different. It's at this point that a different form of progression begins. On the other side of that limited experience of mental stillness is possible.

One might wonder what the point of putting hours of effort into not thinking anything might be. It's about calming your mind, not just temporarily stopping it. That calm can and will extend to greater calm all the rest of the day. It's not magic, it only goes so far, but mental clarity and stability are hard to pursue in any ways. Exercise can help a little, and I think the two experience forms overlap more than people might expect. You take focus off your body by sitting motionless, but running for an equivalent amount of time also frees up space for internal focus, even though keeping yourself moving also uses some attention.

I've experienced stress--physical tension--moving from one place to another within my body as I've meditated over the past 2 months. I can't really place that as meaning something in particular, I'm just including it for completeness. I've experienced less mental or emotional change than I would have expected. Some, but not so much. Maybe I feel slightly more stable and grounded, even though I've been through a lot in the last 2 months.

a bit off topic, Keo ordained as a novice once too (covered here) 

Background context reference

There's a lot that I could add, about what my life context has been like recently, or what doesn't seem clear and developed in this.  

First I wanted to mention a background context reference.  A friend recently recommended this site for a lead on where to practice, as a meditation center (a large set of those, I think), promoting 10 day retreat practice, the Goenka organization (maybe not used as an organization title reference?), linked at dhamma.org.  It talks about background and covers limited information about practice, but of course most of the "how to" part is only conducted on retreats in person.  Let's sample a bit of context though.

To be clear what I was taught was described as vipassana, the form of meditation they describe.  It's hard to say if the two forms are quite similar or not; maybe the category name is the same but actual practice differs.  Their description:

Vipassana, which means to see things as they really are, is one of India's most ancient techniques of meditation. It was rediscovered by Gotama Buddha more than 2500 years ago and was taught by him as a universal remedy for universal ills, i.e., an Art Of Living. This non-sectarian technique aims for the total eradication of mental impurities and the resultant highest happiness of full liberation.

Vipassana is a way of self-transformation through self-observation. It focuses on the deep interconnection between mind and body, which can be experienced directly by disciplined attention to the physical sensations that form the life of the body, and that continuously interconnect and condition the life of the mind. It is this observation-based, self-exploratory journey to the common root of mind and body that dissolves mental impurity, resulting in a balanced mind full of love and compassion.

So far so good, but it doesn't say much about the purpose, in detail, or the actual practice.  This part goes further:

Therefore, a code of morality is the essential first step of the practice... 

The next step is to develop some mastery over this wild mind by training it to remain fixed on a single object, the breath. One tries to keep one's attention on the respiration for as long as possible. This is not a breathing exercise; one does not regulate the breath. Instead, one observes natural respiration as it is, as it comes in, as it goes out. In this way one further calms the mind so that it is no longer overpowered by intense negativities. At the same time, one is concentrating the mind, making it sharp and penetrating, capable of the work of insight.

These first two steps, living a moral life, and controlling the mind, are very necessary and beneficial in themselves, but they will lead to suppression of negativities unless one takes the third step: purifying the mind of defilements by developing insight into one's own nature. This is Vipassana: experiencing one's own reality by the systematic and dispassionate observation within oneself of the ever-changing mind-matter phenomenon manifesting itself as sensations. This is the culmination of the teaching of the Buddha: self-purification by self-observation...

More detailed, and of course that's as far as web page content is going to go.  Again I'm no expert, as I suppose the people guiding others in a meditation center probably would be, but I'll still get back to adding some clarification to that advice to a friend.

Another book reference, Mindfulness with Breathing, is good for outlining in very practical terms how our body and mind are linked by breathing patterns and mental state.  I'd recommend that even for people who have no interest in meditation; it's interesting, and fairly easy to notice and confirm--the initial parts--just by observing your own mental states and breathing forms.  

The basics are this:  when we are very calm our breathing is naturally very smooth, deep, slow, and even, based from our stomach / diaphragm, and when we are mentally agitated it is based from our upper chest, is shallower, faster, and the airflow is more constricted.  It mainly works the one way, with breathing reacting to mental state, but you can even turn that around, and breath slower and deeper to calm your mind.  Or to an extent you can breath faster, shallower, rougher, and higher in the chest to trigger a more agitated mental state (not that a need for that would come up so often, but it's interesting to try out).

Further discussion

I had never really did much with developing why one might meditate in that, although on a fast read it might seem as if I did, since I added a conventional possible set of goals within that.  That was there more as a place-holder than a likely list of potential benefits; one would probably meditate largely to experience the effects for themselves, with only vague expectations about potential benefits.  Or maybe within the context of other learning the goals could be quite clear and detailed, even including stages of expectations and varying levels of goals.  Maybe it would be just to remain more calm, be more focused, or control temper; there's no reason why goals would need to be elaborate or exotic. 

It could include a spiritual / religious context, or mental-state goals and expectations could vary broadly, so that the question "why meditate?" is too much to cover adequately.  Let's set that aside again.  

I didn't add much about what I've experienced, even though I've mentioned that I just meditated for over two months (almost 3 now), about the same time period I was ordained way back when, so I've been meditating for longer now than then.  There isn't much to say, really.  I feel slightly calmer and more stable, but I felt somewhat calm and stable before.  The way my body experiences retained tension has changed, but of course that was never an initial goal, and I'm not sure that it's helpful.  

In that website, for that meditation center, they describe how meditating for 10 days, many hours a day, is often experienced as transformative.  I've not experienced that.  Probably my own less informed practice wouldn't lead to that, even if I could somehow work up to comparable exposure, two work-weeks worth of practice time within a week and a half.

So shouldn't readers disregard this, and listen to a Goenka-trained practitioner instead?  Sure; you should probably do that.  I'm passing on discussion with a friend, based on limited exposure myself, and it's uncommon to hear from a friend in such a way, but if you can tolerate some reading in a limited sense you will have done so (someone acting in that role, at least).  

I tend to do that, discussing subjects I'm not an expert in.  I talk about fasting here, even though I've only fasted for about 25 days over the past year (water fasting, essentially, but I've also been drinking tea).  I mention experiences with running, and I'm not much of a runner, having built up to training for 20 miles or so a week this year, falling well off that for months now (first due to Bangkok heat, lately related to minor knee problems).  I don't even run races, although I have in the past.  10 years ago I started writing about tea here, and I'd only had limited exposure to the subject back then, only trying a couple of dozen versions of loose tea by then.  It's awkward looking back on those early posts.

Back to closing thoughts, what I've left out earlier.  It's a little odd moving so directly past why to meditate, what better goals might be, or later expectations, but given the context I'll have to.  I can say a little about what limited exposure has been like, I guess nearly 40 hours of trial over more than two months.

I might have understated what that body tension experience is like.  Meditating for 15 to 20 minutes might still be ok, but the tension in your body tends to collect in places and express itself more than one might imagine.  I'm sure that must vary a lot by individual.  For whatever reasons for me I feel fine for the first half an hour or so, and then tension issues become a problem.  The effects vary day to day.  Some days it's not really an issue, and some days I quit after half an hour because one leg is asleep or cramped.

In that temple training center I was discussing practice with guests and a young woman, who was a regular there, described the issue of discomfort while sitting, which stuck with me.  She said that she tries to make the pain experience seem smaller in her mind.  In a way that seemed to work, and it also missed part of how I saw it.  It had seemed to me that fully accepting the physical feeling helped you move through it, and any limited form of mentally rejecting it or setting it aside would make it worse, because it was going to remain a big part of your momentary experience.  Not wanting to feel it was worse than the actual feeling itself, in the same sense that it can be maddening to wish the planned time ended, because you absolutely can't affect the rate of flow of time.  Moving on...

  

The experience of patience is interesting, seeing the experience as unpleasant versus neutral or positive.  That fades as it becomes normal, over a relatively short time-frame, within a couple of weeks or so, but earlier on very trivial discomfort brings up an aversion to continuing.  That must vary by individual?  It seems normal before long, not positive or negative, although as physical discomfort increases that can shift. For the rest it will go without saying "that must vary by individual," just assuming that the context here is talking mostly about what I've experienced over the last three months, and less so related to the other two times I meditated regularly.

The experience of flow of time changes, a lot.

One might wonder about inner voice issues; to what extent would your mind become quiet, or not?  It does quiet down.  Early on it seems noisy as could be, then daydreaming and tangents replace that, and only then it begins to still.  I don't know that there's any sort of more positive condition associated with more quietude; it's interesting, but the experience seems to be about calming, not becoming calm.  The noises tell a story, or different stories.  For me the daydreaming part is more trivial than one might imagine; deepest fears or repressed goals, problems experienced in life, aren't turning up so much.  Some, sure, but it seems to include more noise.  Ego seems to drive a lot of it; random self-association, something like short-term goals or reactions.  Once in awhile an interesting idea gets mixed in.

It seems necessary to move past a constant daydream phase, the second part you experience, to get to deeper insights.  Noticing thought patterns and letting them go leads to this gradual calming.  There is a very pleasant, deeper calm that can occur, which you can't necessarily trigger intentionally; it's interesting when that happens.

This still lacks a lot of guidance about sitting on a mat or not, closing your eyes or looking at the wall, or even returning focus to breathing instead of thoughts (it's simple, but it might not seem so easy or natural in practice).  It's probably as well to leave all that vague.  It goes without saying that using a timer makes a lot of sense, otherwise you'd never stop thinking about how long it had been, or would look at a clock the whole time.

Between those parts about mental experiences, and another main outcome being body tension reducing and moving around it, it doesn't sound like time well spent, does it?  Maybe not.  Maybe I should free up 10 days and get some input on a retreat, although that's not something that could align with my life, for the next decade or so.  

I would never choose to spend 10 days on a retreat versus with my kids, unless I could expect far more dramatic positive results than I've ever had reason to expect.  It's my job as a parent to never make a choice like that, as I see it.  I'm separated from my kids for 4 months now, as things stand, but I'm also working to earn a living to support them, so dropping out for a long week would relate to missing a long week of time with them later.  It's a no-go.

That's pretty much it for background context too, as far as I need to go.  I live in Bangkok, working, although I will return to working remotely in January--I think--while living in Honolulu with them, where they are now.  The rest is complicated but not so relevant.  There was another story about problems related to a cat but I'll leave that out too (it is covered in a post here anyway).  I'm living with three cats now, and it's nice how they practice meditation along with me, only fighting each other, knocking things over, or asking for attention once in awhile.  They get it; they want to be supportive.

I would recommend trying out limited meditation, and then if it seems interesting or productive maybe looking into getting better guidance in a meditation center somewhere.  I'd recommend trying out fasting too, but running probably isn't for everyone, since there are less impactful ways to become more active and then get fit.  

If you have good faith in your joints then why not though; get on with running.  Walking quite a bit can help as an early transition, then running mixed with jogging while your body adjusts more, trying to ramp up distance and pace very, very slowly only later on so that you don't get hurt.  Wearing good shoes should help, and talking to a doctor if any part seems questionable.  Of course I wonder if I won't pay a price, having knee problems later on.  Never mind later on; it's been a rough month for one knee.

As for meditation I don't see much related to it being scary, dangerous, or even potentially negative.  Just as someone with a heart condition could drop dead if they try to run someone with a severe underlying mental condition might experience some serious problems.  You could get a doctor to check your cardiovascular health easier than mental health could be reviewed, but I think most people would be fine meditating, with limited trial exposure.  As with running practicing moderation in increasing duration would seem to make sense; there is no need to go straight to longer sessions.

I just saw something about a "quiet walking" trend on Tik-Tok, about a girl filming herself walking without any electronics (or simulating that, since the video recording is surely on a phone?).  If someone feels anxiety if they don't use their phone for 10 or 15 minutes I'm not sure how seated meditation would work for them.

Mindfulness practice versus meditation

For someone feeling like all this is running long and venturing into tangent after tangent this is a natural place to stop reading.  When I trained to meditate in that center they advised mixing seated and walking meditation practices, with walking practice more a mindfulness exercise, which really is something else.  They're two different parts of the eightfold Buddhist path.  Mindfulness is practice of expanding momentary awareness and presence, while meditation is what I've been going on and on about, an odd range of concentration exercises, basically.  Or maybe that still describes mindfulness better.

It might seem a little odd, this focusing on the present moment.  How could one not be present; where would they be?  Daydreaming, following random thoughts, immersed in the next thing they want to do or get, or a range of repetitive behaviors, pursuing anxiety or rejection of parts of experience, caught up in ego-related repeating cycles, on and on about how any given circumstances reinforces whatever repeating pattern makes them seem special.  Walking meditation and focusing on the present moment can help with all that.  

There's lots more to it, and this isn't going to branch into a second full treatment of that background, and practices that work to develop it.  It's all not really separate from meditation; the two themes naturally connect.  You might think that if you sit in quiet sitting meditation there is nowhere to be but the present moment, and then it's interesting how the opposite turns out to be more true, for quite awhile, and your mind wanders to anywhere else.  It's much easier to be mentally still and aware with a much higher degree of stimulus, for example out on a walk.

It's tempting to keep going, to add tangent after tangent.  Core Buddhist teachings about the experienced self and nature of reality come into play.  That context informs what meditation practice is about, what an expected outcome might be, how ideas and perspective make up an ordinary worldview, which can be adjusted to a more functional version.  It's unique how that's generally all a "negative" model, about removing errors included at the level of assumptions, so that you end up with a lighter and lighter final model of reality, that tends to function better and better.  Later functional approaches and acceptance tend to replace internal assumed modeling.

It's as well to not go there though; covering this much seems appropriate.  Good luck if you plan to try it out.  Again I'm no expert or authority on the subject but if you get stuck you can reach out to me to discuss part of it.  I'm definitely not into any sort of "life coaching," but you can imagine how embracing Buddhism tends to couple with being open to helping people.

Viet Sun Lùng Vài Vietnamese white tea

 

Steve of Viet Sun sent a few extra samples with my last order; very nice, much appreciated!  White tea sounded good, so I'll try that one.

When considering what it might be like it occurred to me that I end up saying roughly the same thing about most white teas (and some other types too, really), that flavors can be novel and pleasant, and sweetness, but complexity and feel range tend to be limited.  So I can end up liking a tea but it's hard to not balance describing that with discussing limitations, about what aspects aren't as developed.

I hoped that at least this is in Moonlight White style range, my favorite white tea type, and it must be that, for looking like it [and from the description, which I didn't read until after the review].  Those tend to be extra fruity and sweet, really showing off what works well within white tea range.  Next maybe I like Bai Mu Dan best; those can be complex and intense, to an extent.  

Drifting off topic a little, I last drank an aged Gong Mei white last week, mixing it up, drinking different versions I have around.  I should probably save that for fasting; along with shu pu'er it's very mild on your stomach, ideal for when you aren't eating at all.  It's 8 years old now, reviewed 6 years ago, so already appropriately aged.

Per usual process I'll come back and add Steve's thoughts from a sales page later, and move on to review notes first (including all that sales page entry, since the content is interesting):

Lùng Vài White 2023

This tea was processed in the Moonlight White style from old and ancient trees in the Lùng Vài, Hà Giang.

Lùng Vài is northeast of Tây Côn Lĩnh mountain, the tallest mountain in Hà Giang province. Information about Lùng Vài and other wild origin tea producing areas here.

Nice 1 bud- 2-3 leaf picking. This tea has heavy sweetness with a complex floral fragrance. A light bitterness keeps the flavor profile in balance. Brews up a rich crimson gold soup that goes many rounds. Lasting huigan and strong qi.

I think this a great candidate for aging as the raw material quality is really high.

Very flexible and forgiving, I like brewing this tea with a lower leaf: water ratio at 90-100 degrees for long steeps. Grandpa and thermos brewing are also good options.

290 gram cakes ($0.15/ gram)

I'll add more thoughts on that in a Conclusion section.

Review:

first infusion:  fruity, but subtle still.  This is what you get for not using a rinse step with compressed tea; I'll start notes next round, giving this a longish infusion to get things moving (around 30 seconds).

second infusion:  this does actually have a nice creamy feel to it; that's an exception for how white teas can work out, not expressing structure or the same degree of velvety feel that even some black teas can show, as his black tea version I've been drinking does, but creaminess can be nice.

Fruit flavors are in a typical Moonlight White range.  I like those best when sweetness is really intense and they include some dried berry, and this is more towards melon, but it's still nice.  It's odd how I hate that general melon flavor range across all melons but watermelon (which doesn't have it anyway), in cantaloup, honeydew, and so on, but in tea as a trace aspect that's only similar I like it.  That's about the only fruit I don't like, beyond durian; guava is only so interesting but I would have some if it was in a breakfast buffet.

It's nice how complex this is; I guess that's another exception.  A simple and limited range of flavors can come across as somewhat complex if that includes enough supporting notes and tones, or even just forward flavors (berry with citrus and melon, for example).  Warm tones underlie this experience, and the creamy feel seems to connect to actual flavor range, so it's a little like a creamsicle (but not exactly; it doesn't match that artificial orange flavor).

third infusion:  warmth picks up; it's different.  It leans a little towards cinnamon, maybe just not exactly that.  Melon seems to be transitioning to warmer and heavier fruit range too, maybe moving a touch towards dried persimmon.  Sounds like I'm making that up, doesn't it, letting my imagination run a bit?  I think it really does though.  A light and counterbalanced version of melon, dried persimmon, and cinnamon is nice.  

Intensity is moderate in this, maybe even light, especially for me being accustomed to sheng and black tea range lately.  I'll need to keep compensating by using longer infusion times, 20-some seconds at least.  Lighter range flavors would probably show through better brewed wispy light but it's harder for me to appreciate that.  

Using full boiling point water would probably extract the most, without heavier flavors or astringency being an issue at all, so that's probably best.  I use hot water from a filtration and heating dispenser so it's not at full boiling point.  There's an electric kettle sitting on the table beside me but it's hard enough to get motivated to write these notes, and I have a list of things to do later.

fourth infusion:  warmer tones keep evolving, although brewing a tea slightly stronger will cause you to experience that range more, as I'd mentioned.  It's not so different than last round, but a richness might be picking up, an almost savory range.  Dried persimmon has a bit of savory edge to it, in addition to warm and rich fruit tones, so I'm just saying roughly the same thing in a different way.  If you visit a Chinatown you should pick up some of those; they're so nice.

It's nice how this is fruity but also well into sun-dried tomato range now.  White teas don't tend to transition this much.  I think I've emphasized that by leaning into brewing heavier, but it's still cool experiencing that.  

fifth infusion:  more of the same.  If anything a mineral base stands out more now, lending a slight metallic edge to the rest, in a way that's actually pleasant instead of off-putting.  It might be more natural for someone to interpret that as a warm forest floor note evolving, as a transition from cinnamon spice and warm dried fruit tone earlier.  Heavy mineral tone, similar to that from an artesian well, and warm earthy range, similar to early summer forest floor, are somewhat different, without much overlap, but in a sense those two impressions meet each other at one particular place.  It has a nice heavier tone supporting base; maybe it's as well to leave it at that.

sixth infusion:  really more of the same.  Somehow a touch of citrus tone picked up; that's odd, for it to increase at this place in an infusion cycle.  I was just going to say that's plenty for notes but let's try one more round.  

These leaves really should be fading a bit because I've been pushing them, using longer infusion times (20+ to 30 seconds instead of 10 to 15, which I use for more intense tea versions), but they probably have a few rounds left in them.  Late rounds can seem less interesting to me, and I get bored of writing, and it must be a lot to read.

seventh infusion:  this really is more of the same now, with less interesting heavier flavors picking up, tree bark and such.  It's still pleasant, but not as good.  That heavier range matches better with the shifted form of fruit, the citrus (like dried tangerine peel, I guess), than earlier lighter fruit probably would.  All in all this has been very pleasant.

Conclusions:

Really nice!  Moonlight White is my favorite white tea range, as I said, even though I've not had one in awhile, and this works as an example of why.  Flavor range is quite pleasant, and it overcomes limited white tea depth of experience for including a rich feel and layers of matching flavors.

I don't want to criticize Steve's interpretation too much, since it's perfectly valid to interpret teas in different ways, but let's go there and review his sales listing notes.  I didn't notice any bitterness in this tea, and main range seemed fruity, not really floral.  The non-distinct sweet and complex background could be either, to be fair, so that part still actually works.

On aging potential, it is interesting how few teas can become more appealing with age, so when that is probably the case it's worth discussing.  I agree that this tea would probably be equally pleasant in a different way in 5 to 10 years.  Some of that bright range would get swapped out for even more dried fruit and heavy flavors, some of which are present already, like the cinnamon spice.  It's so good now it would be hard for me to wait and hold onto it, even if I owned a good bit of it.

It seems natural to me to frame how good I judge this to be in relation to how it is presented.  Sometimes white teas are offered as that one really exceptional range version, something truly refined and novel, well worth a 50 to 75 cent asking price.  That's just not typically accurate, to me, related to having experienced a decent range of new and aged white teas, not so many but not only a few either.  Now that I think of it I've set aside some of a buds-only white tea cake years back (I bought in 2017, reviewed here, but I didn't know the age then); I should try that and pass on notes to help make that point.  

Then if a vendor claims that a white tea version is pleasant and novel, relatively refined and complex, with good aging potential, but still offers it in a normal price range that's more appropriate, to me.  White tea can be interesting and pleasant but not refined in the sense Wuyi Yancha or Dan Cong can be, and not complex and intense as sheng pu'er versions can.  In one sense tea cost and tea experience are two different things, so that you have the same actual final experience whether you pay 10 cents a gram or $1 for it, so all I'm saying here is that value can shift around, with descriptions sometimes seeming to extend beyond what a tea-type range tends to ever express. 

This 290 gram cake is now selling for $43; that's a great value.  Maybe it's priced a little low, really, for what this is, which in general is probably something I shouldn't type out very often in blog reviews, leaving off at only implying that.   

Of course white teas can be unique, complex, refined, and interesting, but to me there's a limit to all that.  Supply and demand probably factor in even more, than whatever this point was supposed to be about.

If someone could buy two of these cakes and drink the second one after 7 years of aging (that old norm for more positive transition), they would have something fairly novel on their hands.  To only buy one and set it all aside would seem strange to me though; this tea is good now.  It can work to buy a cake and forget about the second half; I do that sometimes.  That piece of pressed silver needle cake I didn't even own that much of; it had a back-story to it, about giving an entire cake version to a Thai princess.  Since it meant more to me I didn't drink it, if that makes any sense.

Kaley Tea's Ceylon based Christmas blend

 

A vendor who had sent me Ceylon tea to try in the past, Kaley Tea, recently sent a Christmas tea blend version to try.  So nice!  Earlier in this blog history I would experiment with making Christmas blends every year; it seemed a good time to make an exception from only drinking plain teas, and to experiment.  

This says that it contains tea, cardamom, and cloves, so it's a simplified variation of masala chai.  Masala chai is a good start for a Christmas blend; from there people could add fruit, like orange peel, or cacao, or pine needles, but keeping it quite limited could work well too.  It might allow the tea to play more of a role, where if you mix enough things in it wouldn't matter what the tea is.

drying fruit and peels for use in a Christmas blend (covered here)

It's nice to feel like I'm observing Christmas too.  It's a little early for that, since it's around Halloween time, but holiday experiences never match up here anyway.  It might not be so hot in another two months but otherwise the weather in Bangkok is generally consistent year-round, beyond when it rains more.

I'm brewing this using their recommendations, sort of.  They suggest using a teaspoon to make a cup, brewing that for 3 minutes, with an option to brew it a second time.  I brewed more than that, I think, and for longer, so maybe this will be a little strong.  Ordinarily I'm opposed to diluting tea, adding water, no matter what happens, but I could always make an exception if I've screwed this up.

it's definitely less monochromatic in person; I think shading inside the infuser caused that

Review:

Infusion strength isn't bad, maybe just a touch strong.  It wouldn't be unusual for people to add milk and sugar to this, not to cut overwhelming astringency, since this is mild enough, but just to play up the dessert experience feel, or how masala chai is usually made and enjoyed.  I could drink some and then adjust it, to review it both ways.

The spice balance is good.  Cardamom and clove alone really work, and it seems like this is pretty good tea matching with those.  The flavor input of all three is reasonably balanced; it would be easy for spices to overtake the tea range, but they all show through.  It's pleasant like this, but the extra infusion strength pushes it a little far, off of being sweet, light, complex, and approachable, as the softest and sweetest black teas are.  The tea input seems pretty good but I'll stop short of adding a flavor list here.  Malt doesn't show through, so it's not like an Assam, and maybe some of the mineral base that is distinctive in Ceylon is giving this good balance.

The general effect is very clean; there is no negative contribution of any aspect.  Not very poetic a description, right, compared to bringing up some childhood image of people around a fireplace, drinking tea and eating gingerbread Christmas cookies, or whatever else?  This would go really well with cookies; that's what is missing in the overall balance, a reason for drinking a clean and positive black tea with spice inputs.  

I like the tea but it's not what I'm accustomed to, and this really would make a lot more sense in some sort of late fall or winter context.  It probably would make a nice iced tea, but it's odd mentally switching channels like that, considering a radically different context.  For drinking it plain maybe it would be better with food or those cookies.  I'll try it with a little milk and honey and see how that works.

It's good with those added, probably better.  I used skim milk, what I'm drinking right now; surely that's not optimum, but it's still nice.  As with plain black tea all the flavors fall into a completely different balance when you add milk and sugar (or honey, also what I had most handy).  Going even heavier on infusion strength and using more full cream milk than I added would probably be more optimum, to get the full effect of both inputs.  I tried a second infusion brewed for longer (with the same leaves), this time using whole milk (my wife couldn't sleep at night knowing there are two cartons open at once), but of course the effect is better from the first round, the intensity.

One nice part about drinking it this way--adjusted--could be that people who don't drink tea might be more likely to like it.  These particular spice flavors might appeal most to people with more developed food flavor background (in Thailand or in the West), but to me it's quite approachable and pleasant.  For people familiar with this spicing range there would be no need to mess around with this recipe form, and aspects balance, but for others continuing on to add cacao and a fruit input might be good.  Using an apple peeler to remove some outer rind off an orange might be a nice addition too, giving a touch of extra fruit edge.  I don't see this as working well for coupling with some sort of alcohol input (which can come up as another Christmas theme), but people on that page may take that differently.  A little cognac or brandy would definitely completely change this.

It works for evoking a Christmas feel, I think.  It needs those cookies though, not just any one kind, whatever theme people tend to connect with their own expectations.  My Mom would make a lot of kinds; we had large trays of many types around in the holiday season.  This would be perfect with a kind we didn't make then, which we called whoopie pies, two soft chocolate cookies sandwiching a cream filling center.  Maybe even better with gingerbread men; that would round out the typical set expectation of ginger being the other main input in a traditional masala chai (as I see it; for others black pepper or other things could be added).

This might be a good year for messing around with your own Christmas blend experience; either go out and buy one, or keep an eye out for spice inputs, like spearmint, cacao, or whatever else.  There's still time to work out how adding pine needles to tea works for people in the US, which tree type needle inputs definitely won't poison you, and how drying or chopping the material changes infusion results.  Making adjusted masala chai versions takes practice; you might need a couple of trial rounds to prepare something you can serve to others (all of which I've covered in this blog).

Many thanks to Kaley for sharing this, and an early happy holidays for all readers!  

Lào Cai Old Tree Black from Vietnam (2023)

 

This is an interesting looking black tea that I ordered along with the sheng I've just reviewed from Viet Sun.  For whatever reason black tea is the main other type I've stuck with as a preference beyond sheng, even though I drank a lot more oolong earlier on, and can still appreciate versions of it.  I especially like Yunnan style black teas, by definition Dian Hong, since that more or less translates to Yunnan black tea.  

Just to fill in the extra background usually what is sold as Dian Hong is a certain style, most often all leaf material or leaf with some bud, relatively fully oxidized, and oven dried versus sun dried.  The slightly less oxidized versions that are sun dried, which leaves potential for development through aging for a few years, are often called Shai Hong, or sun-dried tea (maybe just translating as dried?  I don't speak any Chinese language variations).

I'll try to keep this post simple, to just describe the tea.  If it helps describe it to comment on oxidation level, or something such, I'll go there, but it would be nice to just say how it is this time.  Here is the Viet Sun description, which I have read before tasting this time (just to mix up the process):

Our first black (red) tea from Lào Cai Province! A buddy hồng trà from old/ ancient trees growing at 1800m in Bát Xát, Lào Cai. The people living in this tea area are primarily of the Red Dao ethnicity.

A fruity, honey cacao fragrance emerges upon first infusion. This tea brews up quickly into a rich crimson golden soup. The flavors I pick up are fruit jam, chicory, malt, cacao, honey with warming spices. This tea has a chicory dark chocolate bitterness with a rich lingering effect in the throat with and an uplifting, focused qi.

Medium oxidation, medium rolling time/ pressure, lower than average air drying temp/ longer drying time. A great option for a morning pick me up or any time when you need a burst of clear headed energy.

This tea goes many rounds. I like to brew it at 85-100 degrees for shorter and then longer steeps...

Sounds good, and it looks nice and smells great in a dry leaf form.  It smells like plum.

Review:

first infusion:  still opening up, but quite pleasant already.  Rich fruit tones and just a trace of cacao already; those will probably evolve.  Feel is rich too, but that should thicken.  

Amount of malt tone present seems to mostly define whether a tea seems similar to Dian Hong or good orthodox Assam to me, and this contains a little, but for that being moderate it's closer to Yunnan style.  People might associate a characteristic dryness or feel structure with even good Assam but really to me that varies by version (so much for keeping this simple, only a description).  Dian Hong often contains type-typical roasted yam or sweet potato, and I can notice that in this, but it's secondary to a rich fruit tone range, and cacao stands out just as much.

second infusion:  I didn't brew this for long, maybe just over 10 seconds, but intensity is pronounced.  Warmer tones and mineral stands out more with brewing a tea stronger; to keep the other range of emphasis on lighter and brighter range I would need to brew this quite fast at this maxed-out proportion, which is my typical approach (probably 8 grams in a 100 ml gaiwan; most of what would fit).

Savory range picks up, along the line of sun-dried tomato.  Fruit is still pronounced, but I would expect dried fruit tones would stand out more brewed quite light.  This would have to work well brewed Western style, but one would have to be careful about intensity, getting that dialed in to not ruin the effect.  For me Gongfu brewing would be a more natural approach.  Cacao (chocolate, basically) is often a dominant flavor aspect when it's present, but it's a supporting aspect in this.

third infusion:  I went light on this round, to check how that does change things, maybe even a little too light, not long over 5 seconds.  It does draw out a lot more of the fruit; the plum nature in the dried leaf scent finally shows through as a main flavor.  Then a roasted sweet potato flavor along with that is pleasant, and a much lighter cacao aspect is still there, but it wouldn't be noticeable without expecting it.  

The feel is still rich, even though this is brewed quite light, and some aftertaste still carries over.  Often Dian Hong contains this kind of pleasant flavor aspect range but often it's really subtle related to producers using summer harvest material for it, while spring and fall leaves go to making sheng pu'er.  This is pretty intense black tea; you can't get away with 5 second infusions of lots of types, and still get ok intensity.

Sweetness level is good; that's implied by the flavors I keep mentioning but I didn't actually say it.

fourth infusion (back to 10 to 15 second infusion time):  this is balancing better and better.  It's complex enough that it starts to taste like some sort of flavored Christmas blend, there is so much going on.  Cacao stands out more than ever, and the fruit tone shifts a little towards a dried tangerine peel effect.  Roasted sweet potato (I think it's that, not yam, but flavor can fall in between those) fades back to form part of a nice base.  Warm mineral is also nice, very moderate in level, but pleasant as a supporting tone.  Oddly all that integrates so well that at the same time it's complex it comes across as all one thing.  It's an interesting effect.

fifth infusion:  not so different than last round.  Warm tones might be increasing slightly, that one "tastes like tea" flavor range, or I guess that could be interpreted as an aromatic spice input in this.  This is probably a good place to leave off taking notes.  It's probably only half finished related to infusion count but the aspects may or may not go through more interesting transitions, versus the balance of what was already expressed just shifting. 

Conclusion:

It's good.  Never mentioning malt again after that first comment related to not noticing much for that.  For some that would be negative, but for me for liking Dian Hong style better it works better.

The next several infusions were just as good, maintaining good intensity and positive flavor balance.  It dropped off fast when that intensity wore off but a couple of extra long infusions were still nice.  This is a really nice breakfast tea, although it's also good enough to be appreciated as a solo session version.  The style matches what I like most in black teas but I think anyone could relate to it; preference wouldn't limit who could appreciate it.  For me this is the kind of tea I could drink a few times a week for a year, and not get tired of it, but of course that part just depends.

Value is quite good for this version.  It's in a range that a lot of Dian Hong falls into as well, but quality and novelty vary a lot for those versions.  I'd expect most costing a comparable amount would give up a lot for intensity, complexity, and novelty.  It is still just black tea, and those only get so refined or novel, but this checks most of the boxes for pleasant character and good balance.  Someone looking for malt tones or heavier feel structure should be drinking good orthodox Assam instead.

a different cat visited for this tasting

Viet Sun Son La Vietnamese sheng

 

I've reviewed a similar version of this tea sent as a sample by Steve, the Viet Sun owner (here).  I didn't re-read that before writing about this; any description tends to make you focus on finding specific flavor aspects or other character attributes.  This time I've ordered a cake of it, and some black tea that sounded nice.

I'll keep this relatively short and simple, getting back to cite his online description during editing later.  To be clear on context I tried this tea earlier in the week, without making notes, so I have a pretty good idea what I'll think of it, and it travelled to here about a week ago, so it may not be completely settled from the trip yet.  It should mostly pick up a bit more intensity and complexity, if it changes at all.

That Viet Sun site listing description:

A very special tea from Sơn La province in northwest Vietnam.

This is a tea from one of the best ancient tree gardens deep in the forest in Bắc Yên district of Sơn La province. This tea was produced in a H'Mông village not far from the border of Yên Bái province.

Aggressive but with a gentleness, this tea brews up a thick floral sweet liquor. The moderate+ astringency and bitterness pairs really well with the heavy sweetness and kiss of smoke from the wok. A nice minerality also adds an interesting aspect to this tea.

You can expect this tea to go many rounds. Great tea for a bigger session with friends.

Rich, lasting Huigan with a strong focused qi.

370 gram cakes ($0.21/ gram)

Ok!  It doesn't go out on a limb much with flavor aspect description, but I respect that.  Interpretations vary so much that it's as well to set it aside, if it's possible to still give a feel for what the tea is like, and I get that from this.  It's how I expected and hoped it would be.

I re-read that older blog post review notes and it talked a lot about a smoke input; that's not part of this tea.  Since the first few rounds focus on that fading it barely gets around to a detailed flavor list, which tends to also be limited when trying multiple teas, as I was in that case, comparing it to two others from Thailand, one from Aphiwat and one from that Moychay forest initiative.  

I thought it might soften and be better after a couple more years; this version might be more approachable.  Or it's just as likely that my interpretation is varying but the tea character really isn't; it's easy to lose some focus when trying multiple teas, especially when you are focused more on smoke flavor than the rest.

Review:

first infusion:  brewed too light to describe well, but the character still comes across nicely.  It's sweet and fresh, aromatic and complex.  It seems a bit fruity to me.  Brewed this light an effect like melon comes across, which is quite pleasant, even though I don't like most kinds of melons.  Probably that flavor interpretation and effect will shift again at a more normal intensity though.

second infusion:  it's still sweet and a bit fruity, even more intense.  There is a lot going on though, with that being contradicted by how the effect is still simple and direct.  I think flavor complexity relates to a number of layers, but as of yet bitterness and feel structure are still on the limited side.  

A good bit of the flavor range is just floral; it might be natural to interpret the fruitiness as just a part of that.  There's a bit of more vegetal edge, just nothing like that one Thai sheng I keep going on about, which has a very intense input along a similar line, like green wood or plant stem.  It's moderate in this.  Part of the sweetness ties to a warm character element, like brown sugar; that's more of what I mean by it seeming complex.  Mineral is pronounced, and it seems to spread across warmer and lighter tones, as a flinty and light mineral, and also a deeper, heavier mountain spring sort of flavor.  The overall effect is that it's simple, light, and fresh, with medium intensity, even though what goes into that is complex.

third infusion:  I'm trying a slightly heavier infusion to see what that changes, from light, to medium, now to heavy.   I think the tea opened up at the same time, so what I'm describing as changes isn't mostly related to intensity difference, but that is a factor.  The fruit picks up a pronounced citrus dimension, between lemon and lime.  Feel thickens a lot, and aftertaste bumps considerably; both of those could connect to infusion strength.  Bitterness increases too, but it's still in what I see as a moderate range.  Or maybe a bit low; it seems likely that a touch of extra oxidation in processing may have offset the normal bitterness and added sweetness.  The varying color of the leaves points towards that too, just not as a consistent input.

As far as how much I like this, the match to personal preference part, this is exactly how I hoped that this would be.  I really like it.  It's less challenging than the last two Thai sheng I've tried too, so maybe more people would share that preference in this case.

fourth infusion:  I'm trying to imagine how else someone would interpret this; what could it be related to other spice, fruit, or other foods range?  If you think of lemongrass that kind of works.  That does actually taste a bit like a citrus component along with vegetal range, as the name states.  Maybe this does include some grass taste, but to me it's not grassy in the sense green teas very often are; it tastes more like fresh cut hay.

Smelling the empty cup gives a cool effect, a strong warm honey tone.

fifth infusion:  warm mineral shifts, and flavors come across slightly heavier; minor shifts in infusion strength change how the tea comes across quite a bit.  It's odd how fruity this comes across without that being distinct.  There's a touch of citrus that's somewhat clear and that's about it.  Given that it would be natural to interpret it as floral range instead, since it's hard to place.

I wonder about feel effect but I went into this feeling pretty groggy.  It's a Thai holiday and I took a nap later in the morning, not ideal for focusing on anything, and I feel much more energetic and brighter.  Sitting outside on a sunny and breezy early afternoon is good for that too.  I never really get the "cha qi" theme anyway; it could all be exactly as some people describe or just mostly imagination, or a mix.

sixth infusion:  warm honey sweetness really picks up; interesting that would happen at this stage.  It seems to tie together with a catchy rich and syrupy feel, even though there's no reason why those should be connected at either the cause or effect level, that I'm aware of.  The citrus / lemongrass part complements that range well.

seventh infusion:  Lemon is even stronger; it's cool how it keeps evolving.  I'm brewing these rounds relatively quickly but intensity is still good.  Character is really approachable, full in feel, with some bitterness, and great freshness, but not challenging at all.  Feel structure is smooth and rich, not edgy.

This may have a couple minor character shifts to go but that's plenty for notes; something else comes up.  The tea is nice.

Later editing notes:  it was quite pleasant through another half a dozen rounds, and wasn't finished then, still positive, so I might have brewed about 15.  Heavier mineral flavors dominated in very late rounds, which is normal enough, but some of that lighter citrus sweetness hung in there, balancing it, not as positively as before but it was still nice.  

Related to the description of hui gan effect aftertaste (bitterness translating over to sweetness later, per one common interpretation), which was not really mentioned in this review, it wasn't especially pronounced but it did support an effect of overall complexity.

I'm less sure this will improve over 2 or 3 years than I was in reviewing that earlier version; it's pretty good now.  I think it swap out freshness and pick up some depth for 2 or 3 years, and still be really nice, but I don't get the impression that it will improve beyond that.  But what do I know.