Shou pu'er stuffed orange from K. Muikee Tea shop

a few kinds; I have another bai mu dan version to try

I'm finally getting around to trying one of those tea stuffed oranges I bought in K. Muiktee tea shop in Chinatown around three weeks ago (about that visit and a local market area there).  I bought both a shou pu'er and bai mu dan version, and am going with the shou this time.  Not that long ago I had tried my first tea-stuffed orange, a black tea version from the Jip Eu shop (which isn't exactly listed on their FB page).


I just did a group tea tasting yesterday (at time of taking notes) and it will be nice to take a break from brewing tea, or even trying to taste it at the same level of detail as those Gongfu brewing reviews work out.


It looks dark, with just enough light grey that it makes you wonder if it's even a good idea to drink it.  I'm guessing that there is enough mold on this orange that toxins are also present.  I really should have at least rinsed it, but didn't really consider that until mid-way through the first infusion.  I'll surely live; all that relates to long term exposure and risk.


It reminds me of seeing a comment in a tea discussion recently about how there can't be toxins in tea because it never made that person sick.  I don't think it works like that, like food poisoning.  I'd expect the risk is closer to how lead poisoning contamination works instead; it might get to you over time.  Or I've seen pictures of versions that look exactly like this online; maybe it should like that.

that shop owner with Huyen, my friend from Vietnam

Review

It tastes less like citrus than I expected in the first round.  That citrus stuffed black tea from Jip Eu was just that for the first two infusions, a bright, sweet version of dried orange peel.  It also didn't look black or grey; it had dried and preserved differently.  But then I was also using a Gongfu brewing approach with that, which sort of seemed not to make as much sense as throwing it in a pot for  minutes, even while I was doing it.  Sometimes I feel like the extra messing around.

the peel lightened up early in the brewing process

stopped brewing short of it turning inky black first round

It doesn't really taste that much like shou either, more just a mix of flavor range.  It's earthy, of course with some citrus.  The flavors are a bit non-distinct; they mix.  For that they seem cleaner than I'd expect.  Stones and earth come across, or as someone mentioned in a tasting about shou not so long ago that twigs and bark did.  So I guess I'm "getting forest floor," to dress that description up a bit.  And a dark wood.  The citrus may come across more next round, but then the orange peel hadn't opened up much in that first round.  I pried it apart a bit, so the balance should shift even more to shou input.

on the thicker side, how I often drink shou

torn open to help it infuse

On the second infusion the tea is even inkier, dark as a thick-brewed shou.  I brewed it for well over 5 minutes, maybe closer to 10, but not 10.  This should show off not only how well the mix of peel and shou works but also what tea is really like.  Again it's non-distinct.  It's brewed stronger, with the balance between citrus and shou not seeming to change much, just adding more intensity from both.

I can't tell if the shou is good quality or not; mixing citrus in throws off really evaluating it.  It probably was a bit non-distinct without that though.  Some versions can be intensely earthy in different ways, drifting into a dried fruit tone, or towards spice, maybe aromatic tobacco, but more often just expressing petroleum, dark wood, or mineral.

Some shou are just mild, much more subtle.  At the risk of speculating about patterns a bit more than comprehensive tasting can fully support (based only on a couple dozen shou--probably enough) mild, subtle shou tends to be easy to drink even when very young, and both better and worse versions tend to express more complexity and rough edges at first.  Those then even out over a few years and become complex in positive ways in better versions, or just stay a bit odd for others.


I guess that it's not bad; it's not off in any way.  It's a bit like the equivalent of Earl Grey for shou; the tea gets blotted out but the overall effect is still nice.  It might taste a little like a light roasted coffee under there.  The effect from the citrus isn't what I expected at all.  That did seem to transition to be a lot less bright, through aging to the form it's in now.  I'm not sure if it's supposed to be like that or not; I'm familiar with how teas age, not orange peels.

A pu'er vendor once had me try some aged orange peel with tea, maybe 5 years back.  It was supposedly aged in Hong Kong, supposedly 20 years old, or whatever it was (maybe 100, as Chinese stories tend to go).  The idea was that using just a little could add some depth to the tea and bring out some of it's own character; it wasn't about trying to make an Early Grey version of pu'er.  Of course there was a semi-mystical Chinese claim around all of it, about how it really should expand the depth of the feel and such, based on being so old, but as I remember she was speculating that it was more likely a modern product.  Anyway, it was dark too, I just don't remember it being grey.

after a second long soak; not changed much

green oranges (ripe), with longkong and bananas

Looking at the final image after one short infusion and two long ones it occurs to me this may not have been an orange colored orange.  There are a half-dozen at home on the dining room table that aren't the type that actually turn orange; you eat the fruit while the peel is still green.  I'd have to bite the peel to see if that matters much for how it tastes.  The fruit itself varies some across orange versions but not as much as for pineapple, mangos, bananas and the rest.  Juice oranges and mandarin oranges--which they just call "Chinese oranges" here--are different, but the rest are all similar.  To each other, that is; none of them remind me of that "Sunkist navel orange" type at all.


I like the tea; that may not have already came across clearly in the description.  It doesn't express subtlety in the sense of complex layers of aspects, with a range of flavors, since it comes across as a bit mixed together.  It's not earthy as shous tend to sometimes be, no petroleum or tar aspects or anything else too intense, and also definitely not off in any way.


That's not much of a description, but I get the sense that no matter how long I struggled to add aspect listings to that or tweaked brewing I wouldn't get much further.  It's vaguely earthy, clean in effect, with some citrus that's not bright, with mineral undertones and a primary flavor that's as close to a light roast coffee as anything else.  The earthiness covers dark wood range and drifts a little towards mild spice.  That's about it; not bad.

For a tea enthusiast into very subtle, high quality, distinct character teas this wouldn't work at all, unless they could also switch over to a daily-drinker alternative theme.  For a more conventional tea drinker I'd expect that many might like this more than most versions of shou.  Someone really into Earl Grey might not be satisfied with it; the citrus is just so different, muted and warm compared to that bergamot essential oil being intense and bright.

I was surprised this tea brewed a light first infusion, a second stronger version, and ran out of flavor to prepare a third light infusion.  Maybe it wasn't all that much tea to be brewing multiple half-liter pots out of it; that infusion time did add up.  I can't really compare that overall brewing volume with the other earlier cirtrus tea version I tried, due to preparing both in such different ways, but I can go into more comparison of the aspects.

Comparison with the Jip Eu black tea version

I'm reaching back a bit here, to compare this with a tea I tried 6 or 7 weeks ago, but that did stand out enough I think it'll work.  I didn't get the impression either was made from a great version of the base tea, but neither seemed bad either.  At least both were a bit subdued in character, and not flawed in any obvious way, so both worked.  I kind of hoped the earthy shou effect would be more distinctive and pronounced in this version, since some citrus might balance out even a petroleum-heavy version of shou, if it had a couple years to settle out just a little.

it looks as if this was a 2017 version; the rest isn't clear to me

Oddly the two teas seemed closer than one would expect for having those opposing type starting points; a soft, mild, non-distinct shou isn't so different than an earthy, mild, non-distinct black tea.  That earlier Jip Eu version had some chrysanthemum in with the black tea but it only seemed to give it a touch more depth.

The citrus effect did vary a lot.  That other tea's citrus flavor was bright and intense, not quite as sharp as bergamot can come across in Earl Grey, but getting on towards that.  The flavor range varied too, of course; dried orange peel can be similar to a zest but the drying part softens and deepens the flavor range.  That other tea was pretty close to how peeling off an outer layer of a fresh orange and drying that rind-free outer zest comes across, when dried but still quite fresh.  This shou version orange peel wasn't bad for being grey and black--I expected worse.  It was maybe only a bit milder for having experienced some aging effect.  I don't know for sure that means these orange citrus teas are any certain age; it might not take all that long for a peel to turn black and mold a little under the right circumstances.

mandarin orange peels for a blend (not dried yet here)

I'd recommend trying both.  But I wouldn't switch over to mixing these into my own tea rotation, and it's hard to imagine versions coming in an upper-medium quality level, versus these just being quite decent.

I'd be leery of drinking too much of that one, given that peel appearance.  I'm not a nervous person when it comes to taking chances on potentially dodgy teas but I do try to drink mostly versions I have good confidence in related to potential risks.  That really black peel that one vendor had me try once seemed odd too, and the slight whitish / grey surface appearance of this peel made me wonder.  It was probably fine though, probably supposed to look like that.

It probably really is all good

Visiting Chinatown, riding bikes in Bangkok

Yaowarat, the main street

Noppadol and Kittichai, in the Jip Eu shop

the pier for the river ferry; a cool way to get to or from Chinatown

I've talked about visiting the Bangkok Chinatown before, which would definitely be a unique experience for someone who hadn't been to there.  Since we just did a lot of running around during a long holiday weekend this will do as much with picture sharing as tea, venturing into travel blog range, with a second part on going on a couple of biking outings in Bangkok.

Some prior running themes really came together in this Chinatown visit, although there are still a few loose ends to continue with.  I stopped by to pick up small tasting cups (in that earlier shop picture here), to move away from using paper cups at a later tasting event, onto something like Noppadol supplied for that recent tasting event in the Benjasiri park.

K. Muikee Tea

On the first stop I visited K. Muikee Tea, the place that Huyen visited that I didn't make it to, also a vendor Noppadol mentioned being familiar with.  I didn't have much time to sit and drink tea but I did try a Shui Xian they were already drinking; it was nice.  "Nice" covers a really broad range; it was somewhere in the middle of that, if one includes how inexpensive blended versions work out, not limiting it to single-type higher end versions.

I bought some of those white tea and shou pu'er stuffed oranges I had wanted to try.  More than I'll probably drink, since I bought the 100 gram lot or around 10, as they typically sell them, for 400 baht (around $12).  The monks at Wat Pho I share tea with should enjoy trying those too.  I talked just a little with Natapol, the owner, who seemed very nice, but I had other stops to make so didn't stay long.

white tea and shou pu'er stuffed dried oranges

teaware at that shop (K. Muikee Tea)

Huyen with Natapol in K. Muikee Tea

Then onto Jip Eu, my favorite shop.  I was surprised to see Noppadol there, already visiting.  If I were a more superstitious or spiritual-theme oriented person I'd see that as a clear sign that everything is connected, and nothing really happens by accident.  Of course I tasted a few teas with them there; that's just being polite, for as good a host as Kittichai is.  We tried some Wuyi Yancha there, Fujian oolongs, a couple interesting versions.  I missed seeing his wife on the last visit so it was nice to run across her again this time.  As always they were busy with people coming and going to deliver different teas, but that gives the place a nice feel.  It's like visiting your grandmother's house when spare aunts or cousins keep drifting in and out, or maybe more like tea tasting at a local park with joggers and a group doing yoga there, adding a pleasant busy background.

They sold those little tasting cups there (20 baht each--60 cents apiece), so I bought 30 there, more than I'll probably ever need for an event.  As I'd mentioned in another post Kittichai passed on a lot of Jin Jun Mei, a slightly aged version that I think he said they don't even sell, his own tea.  We'd just been talking about rare teas some during the tasting part of that event, about versions he tends to never mention to people because there is so little of it made or available.  A lot of what they sell are medium to slightly above that roast level better-than-average Wuyi Yancha instead.  Those volume sales, what the guys coming and going tend to be delivering, were blended versions of Shui Xian, what people tend to drink or local restaurants serve, a Chinese roasted oolong version of an English black tea blend (more or less, but that's just my take).  Those are fine, just not easy for me to appreciate being conditioned for better single-type versions now.

a different kind of tea shop, a market-stall version

Jip Eu sells lots of tea types.  Noppadol bought a ten year old sheng pu'er tuocha while we were there.  That's where I bought a silver needle cake to give to a Thai princess, to HRH Princess Sirinthorn.  Mid-range Dan Cong I've bought there (Ya Shi, or "duck shit" last) would make for a great lower cost introduction to that type.  Pleasant, type-typical, low cost Dan Cong oolong is a bit of an oxymoron; that just isn't how that works out.  Versions of that type of oolong are usually either expensive or bad, with less than average middle ground to try out.  But they do sell it there: tea selling at 550 baht for 100 grams, as I remember, maybe up to 600 now, or a bit under $20.  That might not seem inexpensive, for someone not familiar with better tea, but to put that in perspective it would make around 50 cups of tea.  One single pot of a better quality version costs that same amount in a higher end local cafe, not the kind of place I'd be a repeat visitor at, but more moderate but better tea would cost 300-400 in a cafe, for one sitting's worth.

I've been considering promoting a tea-shop open-house as an event theme, getting those shops to plan to host a more than an average number visitors over a limited period of time.  There's no space for more than a half dozen people to sit and drink tea in either of those shops, but the idea was that if a few shops joined in that would make for a great format for two or three dozen people to visit multiple places over a couple of hours, to spread the foot traffic out.

that one tea shop I'd visited way back when

I walked over to the pier to catch a ferry back home, ducking through a main market alley on the way.  In a flashback moment I saw a shop there I bought Longjing in way back when I was first starting on loose tea.  I'd been drinking Thai oolong that's in grocery stores before then, and a few other versions I'd picked up in travel, Laos, Vietnamese, and Japanese teas, from those countries, when a Chinese friend mentioned the spring's Longjing harvest was selling in local shops.



Those shops sell either loose tea sitting out open in bins (not a good way to store tea--best to avoid that), or stored in very large jars (better; worth a gamble, if you know which types are going to endure that better, like rolled oolongs, or jasmine pearls, or white teas).  Off to the back there's usually a refrigerator where they keep Longjing that's much better (perhaps the main Chinese green tea), safely removed from the effects of Bangkok heat.  I had tried their two highest quality versions that day, six years ago or so, and could tell the difference but didn't prefer either, so I bought the cheaper version.  That's how starting on loose tea tends to work out.


Another shop had teaware, and I really should have thought through that I could use a sharing pitcher and strainer for these events too.  At home I just brew directly from a gaiwan or clay pot--or infuser, for Western style--into a cup; a leaf or two might get through but it works.  I'll have to go back.  They had lots of interesting looking stuff in one in particular, but time was drawing short.  I chatted with the owner a bit and left without buying anything, and saw some interesting things on the way through the rest of the alley based market area.  Even the smells in Chinatown are interesting.

market and shops areas are along Soi Yaowarat 6; the following pictures are from there

It's worth noting the route that I took that day, since it really does work out for a short tour of Chinatown.  Hua Lampang MRT station (the subway), is just off of the lower right corner in that map capture, a block or two over from Jip Eu, with K. Muikee tea in the middle. That road is called Rama 4 road there, and switches over to being Charoen Krung road as the two meet at a 5 way intersection a bit further on.  Yaowarat, the main road, is a block "down" (South), the one that Double Dogs Tea Room is on in that capture.  All of the South of Yaowarat are small wholesale oriented shop areas, closed after 4 or 5 PM, but really interesting to wander around in the morning or afternoon.  It's kind of a shame to do a quick pass through Chinatown, as I just did, crossing over that top road and then down through the market alley to the pier, but then I have already been there lots of times.

small shops full of all sorts of thing crowd a narrow alley

probably a good place for picking up an inexpensive gaiwan or teapot

just across Yaowarat from that market soi, the street vendor foods area

Biking in Bangkok

the floating market area, part of it

We went on two biking themed outings over this past long holiday weekend in Bangkok, and in this part I'll do more with sharing pictures than talking through all that.  One place I've been hearing about for years is Bang Krachao, or "Bangkok's green lung."  One part is local neighborhood, like a suburb, another is a floating market (less "floating" than one might expect, but it is perched up on platforms on and around some canals there).  And there are bike trails out through a more natural setting, the main draw.

roasted pig, crispy pork style

lunch party

To make a long story short they don't rent bikes for young kids there, or have bikes to rent with a rear seat for a small child, so we couldn't do that part, the main reason we went there.  Some bikes did have two ordinary seats, so Kalani could've just held onto an adult the whole time, but it wasn't worth the risk to us to go that route.


It's funny we're so risk averse, considering how often I see toddlers holding onto a motorcycle handlebars, unsupported by an adult or any seatbelt, but that's just not for us.  I recently saw a video of a woman riding a motorcycle with one hand, while a toddler hung on by themselves, while looking at a smart phone with the other, and she actually took both hands off the handlebars at one point to the type out a message.  Life can seem cheap here.


That market area was nice, for what it was.  I had nice fire-grilled chicken and sticky rice for lunch.  One local vendor made really detailed Pepper Pig and Hello Kitty pancake images, drawn freehand, and Kalani snagged an inexpensive Barbie and two Pepper Pig cups, one to share with a school friend who is moving back to China (gone now; that was her last weekend).

Pepper Pig, with the pancake artist

with Kero Keropi and Hello Kitty pancakes

a spiky tropical fruit; those are nice (50 baht, around $1.60 for that pack)

battered fried bananas, a personal favorite

We also went to Rot Fai Park the next day (or Railroad Park, near Mo Chit), our favorite place for renting and riding bikes in Bangkok.  They cost next to nothing there, around $1 for a rental, and the selection is broad.  That circuit is around 3 km long (a bit over a mile and a half), through a mature park that had been a golf course in the past.  It looks less and less like one as the plant life reclaims the space.

I'm going to really miss that little girl who went with us, Olea, Kalani's short-term classmate for summer camp.  Even though she couldn't really use English--or of course Thai; she's Chinese--her bright spirit was a good match for Kalani's.  Kalani can speak some Mandarin, since she's been studying it for two years now, but I think they just didn't need to talk much to be friends.  It was nice playing with two little girls; hearing two different versions of laughter as different things struck them as funny.

three monkeys instead of two

lots of bikes to choose from

playground break at that park, in the middle of riding bikes

with Amber, her mother (left; my wife is on the right)

proof that I was actually with them; a cafe in that park