Russian tea experts join our online group meetup

 

photo credits to Suzana and Ralph, respectively

It was hard to know how to put this title summary, since "enthusiasts" really doesn't capture the level of developed input these two tea contacts are able to pass on, but they both seem a bit plain-spoken to take up this form of implied experience claim.  One is Alexander Zhiryakov, the main founder of Laos Tea, and the other Alexander Vorontsov, a main founder of the Russian Tea Lovers enthusiast group.  Both might take tea interest a bit further than I do, at least in two different senses.  Adding commercial tie-ins is a change in interest form, and the Russian Tea Lovers, which I think both Alexanders are associated with, really take exploration seriously.  

I've met both before, for which I'm very grateful.  A chance online contact with Dasha Birukova led to her inviting me to a tasting at a Moscow bookstore on a visit there, which was very pleasant.  It was a chance to meet Alexander Zhiryakov and great exposure to a form of Laos tea and local culture.  I think I started talking to Alexander Vorontsov not so long after that, surely tied to posting about Russian tea themes, and we met here in Bangkok when he visited later.  He helped me write a post about tea culture in Russia, which mentioned that Moscow bookstore tasting.

Russians smile, just not as much while they are commuting

cheerful Russians on the Moscow subway; meeting silly tourists helps improve the mood

meeting at my favorite local Chinatown shop, Jip Eu

I'm a fan of Russian culture and their tea culture.  And of lots of places and cultures, moving on to really appreciate varying outlooks on life in general, but it's nice how it all plays out related to tea there.  The tradition runs a bit deeper than in most places, including here in Thailand.  Although the most mainstream form there now relates to Ceylon appreciation local tea enthusiasts are focused almost exclusively on Chinese teas, probably mostly on pu'er.  Tea clubs are a novel theme there, like a cafe but different in form.  I'll add a little introduction of both participants along with more on that.

another tea contact and vendor, and that club environment

We talked most with Alexander Zhirayakov about a new project to test teas and set up a "passport" or profile of them based on testing, a "Tea ID" project.  The idea is novel, to gain extra function from conventional screening of what is negative (pesticides and such) along with clarifying origin and, if possible, quality level through still-under-development use of specific identifying markers.  It may be possible to take some of the burden off supply chain tracking and direct-from-origin information streams by verifying a lot that simply can't be identified through testing now.  You can imagine how lots of tangents come up in just considering such a possibility:  how would that be possible, what other function or purpose could be added, and what limitations or other cultural considerations might support or block such development?

Alexander Vorontsov helped summarize a bit on local tea culture in Russia, a subject I thought my friends would also find fascinating.  That naturally moved from an overview starting point to considering which teas were focused on most, and how quality issues and sourcing relate to differing forms of local tea interest.  It's hard to really get evolution of local ceremonial aspects integrated in a short discussion; talk of connections or lack of exposure with varying tea origin areas, supplier issues, and other background naturally comes first.  He did pass on a bit about the tea clubs, just not much about their tea enthusiast group development, which we just didn't get to.

It's hard to condense the broad range of both discussion scopes to simple take-aways.  Covering personal likes and practices helps fill in more of a broad background, but those really don't lead to distinct summary.  That's what local tea culture is though, shared appreciation, and the sum total of lots of individual experience preferences.  A couple of hours only goes so far in mapping it all out, and covering personal introductions.  Maybe a backwards approach, explaining what we missed, will help fill in what was covered.

Laos tea:  for focusing so much on that interesting testing direction we really didn't get far in discussing tea from Laos.  It's a shame, because two hours isn't a lot of time to do justice to only that, but that testing project was worth the focus.  This meetup group has now talked to the two people probably most involved with Laos tea production and promotion in the world, with Anna as the other, and barely got into which tea types are now made in Laos.  I know the answer to that, based on trying dozens of individual versions; I should write about it in a summary post.  Or we could get Somnuc Anousinh (mentioned here, here, and here) to meet online sometime and focus on that.  That one black tea, the first "here," is one of the best versions of black teas I've tried, per my preference; a bit rustic in style but just fantastic, really basic but deeply appealing as Dian Hong can be.

Or in the meantime Alexander wrote a good bit and shared photos on that background here.

Vietnamese tea, Huyen's input:  it's hard to get 4 people a balanced proportion of time to cover where they stand on a discussion topic, and completely impossible for 6.  Alexander Vorontsov mentioned that he lacked significant exposure to better Vietnamese tea but we never really filled in what that range is, even in summary discussion.  To me Vietnamese tea is the best and most diverse in South-East Asia too, unless one considers Taiwan part of that set, and then probably second.  Laos is at a cool place for building on very old roots in novel directions, and countries like Thailand and Indonesia have been doing that for longer (in the modern forms, at least), but Vietnam's tea production development is far more mature.  Not really so much compared to China, but then that's true of everywhere else too, to me even in comparison with Japan.

Tea production in India, Russia, and Georgia:  we actually did discuss a bit about all three of these origins, but surely left out far more than was covered.  It would be nice to get back to all that in follow-up.  The tricky part about discussing regional development, and personal preference, is that a main sub-theme about quality levels never completely drops out, and also never becomes completely clear.  Sheng "pu'er" from Laos and Vietnam (and Thailand, and elsewhere) can be varied in character, quite positive, and maybe a bit variable across a lot of aspect range, not dialed in to the narrower character expected and valued from Yunnan.  That's also an oversimplification, since Yunnan sheng varies a lot, not only related to origin and style conventions, and quality level, but across lots of range.  The same problem comes up everywhere, talking about differing but overlapping subjects related to tea types, styles, and quality levels.

Samovar brewing:  mentioned in closing, Alexander Vorontsov said that in a future session he could go through what this is all about.  I've only tried tea--mixed with herbs--brewed in a samovar once. That was one of the more interesting experiences of my life, related in part to the context, visiting a dogsled racing camp in the Arctic region in Murmansk, Russia.  

riding that dogsled at around 4 in the afternoon

No doubt Alexander has lots to add beyond what I experienced through that cup of tea.  It goes without saying that the Russian Tea Lovers sessions would mostly use clay pots for brewing, maybe only setting those aside to use a gaiwan, if that seemed relevant.  Or so I would assume; we really didn't discuss anyone's preferences in much detail, related to when or for which types Western brewing might make sense.  Alexander (Vorontsov) was drinking mate from a related device during that meeting, and other kinds of exceptions must come up.

that Russian Tea Lover's Instagram capture, with Alexander Vorontsov in the lower right

There isn't much in here about what Huyen, Suzana, Ralph or I thought of any tea theme.  For having two guests this time we stuck more strictly to focus on their input on tea themes.  And that input and discussion was great; all of us really appreciated it.

Laos Tea Tasting in Moscow, review of a black tea and shou

I'm in contact on Instagram with Daria Biryukova, who is involved with Laos Tea, a Russian based business that produces local tea in Laos.  She invited me to an informal tasting at a bookstore after seeing a post about us visiting Moscow at that time, the week before the Western Christmas (the Russian version is on January 7th).   Alexander Zhiryakov, a tea maker and business founder, was preparing the tea.

This event description is also an introduction to a review of two samples they passed on, beyond only covering the tasting.  That outing was around a month ago now and my general impressions of it are still clear but finer details not as much so. One tea poured was an oolong, the other a black tea.

The oolong was a bit unconventional, interesting, and maybe a little rustic.  The black tea was nicer and more refined, pretty close to a style of Dian Hong I had brought with me to drink (on the trip, not to that event).  Alexander wasn't quick to compare the Laos teas to any other origin style, since teas' character does vary related to lots of different inputs, and they did seem distinctive.  But that tea did seem to taste like a Dian Hong (along the same lines as these), which for the most part is a good thing.

always nice being in a picture once in awhile

I've heard of Laos Tea before, years ago the first time.  Most recently it was mentioned by another online friend who runs Kinnari Tea, another Laos tea producer.  A Bangkok tea friend who is stingy with praise said that Laos Tea's sheng was ok a few years ago, which is a more positive endorsement than it would sound, but still not much to go on.

Alexander and Daria were very nice and the event was enjoyable.  We talked about tea and also culture and travel, if only a little, since two discussions in two languages were running at the same time.  One guy there was from Siberia, I think it was.  He encouraged me to go and visit some remote region, I think in part because it was funny to him to promote that place as a tourist draw.  Alexander definitely has a lot of experience with different teas and travel to draw on in discussion.

Tea review:  Phongsaly shou pu'er and Banchicho black tea

Laos tea Banchicho black tea

Laos Tea Phongsaly loose shou pu'er

both teas brewed (black left, shou right)

I've tried these tea samples they passed on before, on that trip, but reviewing isn't part of my vacation routine.  It takes time, the tasting and then editing, and it's hard to account for water as a variable, or to overcome differences a shift in climate can put your sinuses through.  Traveling to a more ideal setting and doing a tasting would be an interesting experience, like on a camping outing with good weather.  The water in that Moscow hotel seemed fine, so I'm guessing that I had a relatively sound initial impression of the teas.  In St. Petersburg the hotel water was so bad I switched to buying an inexpensive Earl Grey to drink there.  They don't have kettles in Russian hotel rooms, it seems, as they do in most Asian versions, so without bringing or buying one you're at the mercy of whatever hot water is available at the cafe or restaurant.

I'll review both tea prepared using a modified version of Gongfu style brewing, at a low enough proportion one might see it as a modified version of Western brewing instead, or in the middle.  Even more unconventionally I'm drinking both together.  Comparison won't help at all (they're not similar enough for that to be useful) but I'm working through a slight backlog of what I mean to write about.

On first taste the shou is as I remember it, but it will probably improve after the initial rinse and first infusion.  It's not unpleasant in any way, not "off," and beyond that earthy, towards peat and dark wood, with a little sweetness.  It seems like normal shou.

The black tea is slightly better than I remember it.  It's relatively clean flavored and complex, with a lot of bud content extending a base of malt, a clean version of forest floor, and sweeter elements trailing towards a dried fruit and into a touch of pine.  It's not so much that taste of pine needles, instead that texture and hint of dryness that is normal in bud-heavy black teas.  One of my favorite bloggers (Amanda of My Thoughts Are Like Butterflies) used to call it a resin-like quality, which as I take it she meant in a good way.  I like that aspect, I just like leaves-only black related tea versions more.

The shou did improve on the second infusion.  A trace of mustiness eased up, still not completely clear but not pronounced.  Per my understanding--not memory; I've lost track of a specific production year--this tea is 3 or 4 years old, so the initial fermentation tastes should've had plenty of time to fade.  In my past experience shou also experiences changes related to storage conditions, so it is possible to open a 3 or 4 year old version that's a bit odd and experience it clearing up in fermentation related aspect range a lot over half a year or so, once it gets some limited air contact.  One relatively commercial (mass produced) shou version I tried last year moved from tasting like petroleum to being smooth, creamy, decently balanced, and tasting nothing like petroleum.  That tea was about the same age, improving based on being opened to be exposed to a little more air contact for less than a year.

black tea left, shou right

The flavor intensity picks up too, beyond improving, but it's still in typical shou range.  A touch of creaminess (think "Guiness stout") joins in the peat and dark wood, and the depth starts to resemble French Roast coffee a little.  No spice-like complexity or anything like fruit adds to that.  It's not that far from a standard-issue Dayi shou I bought from Yunnan Sourcing last year, one billed as tasting like fruit, which was clean and decently balanced, but also just in the general neutral shou range.  For someone on this page this tea would be fine if it didn't cost much, since it is a basic shou.

The black tea is more interesting and distinctive.  It does remind me of lots of other black teas, and I don't get an impression that it's great tea, but it's nice.  The flavors are clean and reasonably complex.  Soft malt works well as a base, and there is earthiness and other sweeter range beyond that.  It's one or two interesting flavor elements away from being much better tea, mostly limited by nothing really standing out about it.  A touch of woody forest floor gives the malt some depth, and the balancing sweetness makes that work, but both the description and the experience would work a lot better if there was something else to it.  That forest floor component hints a little towards a root-bark spice aspect, but it equally hints towards dried wild mushroom, in the end settling in the middle range of soft malt and clean flavored light wood.

Neither tea transitions on the next infusion or later ones.  Providing a number of consistent infusions is positive, and related to feel of the teas and the rest they seem fine.

Conclusions

If a vendor had sent these two teas I might skip mentioning them in blog review since doesn't make for a novel story or work well for vendor promotion to conclude that a tea is "ok," good in a more moderate sense of good, but the whole experience was interesting, that event and trying tea versions from a unique location.  

The teas were nice, and it is always interesting trying teas from different origins.  These versions weren't really presented as two teas that best represent their product line, or the best they make, it didn't seem, just samples of what was on hand.  Either this black tea or the other we tried Alexander said was thrown off by heavy rain late in the harvest and processing cycle, an input that wasn't positive.  That other black tea in the tasting my favorite, as I recall.  I bet their sheng is better, and that other black tea versions would also be.

I have tried a number of teas from Laos before.  I first visited Laos exactly ten years ago (funny how fast that went), and we didn't see tea then, and I wasn't so into it then anyway.  On a visit about two years after that I bought tea directly from a farmer, and also coffee, one step towards getting drawn into loose tea.  The teas weren't very good, from that small farm, not on the standard level these are, probably due to their processing skill being limited.

Laos tea in that bookstore; I should have focused in and picked up more

They sold a few more teas at that small bookstore but I didn't get around to buying any others.  That early in the trip I was a bit single-minded about searching out Russian teas, which sort of worked out and sort of didn't.  I bought two Russian teas later (at Perlov and Moychay shops), a green tea and a compressed tea presented only as "not any conventional form of hei cha."

some earthy, unusual tea, but I'll hold off on description for now

Post-script; more about that trip and a Russian sense of humor

Related to the Russia trip in general, some relatively trivial experiences sum up the tone of experiencing the culture, which I'll share here.  I've already talked about main highlights like seeing auroras or the experience of visiting Red Square, and this is about how the people seemed instead.  As broad strokes go Russians were mostly friendly and helpful, and seemed genuine, but one part of interactions was unusual, funny in a different way.

Of course I don't get Russian culture, and only took away so much insight from spending two weeks as a tourist.  People were a bit of a contradiction, in a way that sort of worked.  They were reserved but friendly, not cheerful but pleasant, at times a bit condescending but in a way that didn't really seem mean spirited.  If anything instead of being insulted by that type of joking I took it as a sign of familiarity, and a type of inclusion, related to us being in on the joke more than being a target of one.


The first:  my wife and I were walking together and she turned to say something, but directed it to a random Russian guy by mistake (I was probably lagging, looking at something).  He was startled but then laughed and said “nihau,” Chinese for hello.  It’s difficult to explain why that was funny, to him and to me (but not so much her).  I doubt he was convinced that she was probably Chinese, and in fact she's Thai.  Or maybe he did think she was Chinese, and I misread his take on all of it.  It seemed an indirect example of how Russian humor can be funny but not necessarily in a conventional way.  Why was it funny for that guy at the tasting to say you could see an aurora at some remote lake in Siberia, when it's not that far North and you can't?  It was just a form of banter.

our guide, Ivan, saying "I'm not your fond memory; take a picture of a stuffed bear"

I can't really explain it, but since I'm doing anecdotes I'll add one more.  Late at night we tried to check out of a grocery store, using self-checkout since only that was open.  It wasn't completely working; that kind of thing isn't always seamless in any country.  The guard there told staff to help us, in Russian, and as an aside commented on our status by saying in English "help me," mimicking us crying out for help.  It was funny, but I suppose it wouldn't be funny to everyone.  A Thai or American security guard would not think to say that.  Of course he was in the process of helping us, and over and over people helped us, and my final impression of Russians relates to that, of people being friendly and helpful.


My overall favorite memory was of taking those long escalators up and down to the metros, carrying my daughter on them.  There we talked about what we were going to see, or what we just had seen, about the cold weather, or the the trip in general.  We saw images of a circus or ballet on signs in St. Petersburg, triggering excitement before and after experiencing those.  Another fond memory is of walking around the Peterhoff palace with my son, talking about the trip, and about the unusual feel of visiting gardens in the winder.  My favorite part of every trip travels with me, the experience of spending time with my son and daughter.

I was usually holding her

typical view back down the escalator

elevator group selfie

Keo at Peterhoff Palace

on a hop-on-hop-off local tour bus

flashing V signs and drinking shakes in a Moscow burger restaurant

chilling in Gorky Park

funny I don't remember this, a TV fire

at the St. Petersburg Bolshoi circus