2017 Wawee Tea Thai sheng compared with 2016 Bada

 

2017 Wawee Tea sheng left, in all photos, Chawang Shop 2016 Bada right

First off, why this comparison?  At first I was going to just try the Thai version, seemingly an older version related to a new one I've just reviewed, but then it seemed likely I'd have a lot more to say about how I couldn't completely judge potential for a version in the middle of fermentation transition, 6 years old, but probably fully changed over at 15 (given that it's warm and humid in Thailand).  I could still judge the pleasantness right now, and it would be fine in relation to that, but in a sense the potential further change could seem the main story.

Then I was going to just drink a normal tea I already had; my energy level can feel too low for the extra hour of tasting and writing on the weekend, which can easily stretch into two hours.  In another post I'd mentioned that I was going to try to clear through samples and extra bits of tea, last pieces of sheng cakes, so I picked one out for that, a 2016 Bada version from Chawang Shop.  Then it occurred to me that it could be interesting comparing them, guessing about transition process completeness and further potential at the same time.

I've already reviewed a 2014 Wawee Tea Thai sheng in this review post (with more on their teas on their website, or background in a FB page).  This one is a "Pitakvavee series" version (versus the earlier a "Thai hero" series), a spring 2017 tea, identified as gushu material.  To be clear they sent this to try along with the 2023 version that I ordered (many thanks for that!).  I bought two 200 gram cakes of that new sheng, to have a standard amount to drink.

There must be some general Bada area character to consider, then also whether that matched it or not, and more to cover about how good the tea was originally.  Referring back to the earlier related review would only be so helpful; what did I know of judging sheng versions four years ago when I bought this (or now, really).  There were some Steepster impressions of it, since Steepster was active back then.  It wasn't expensive, for what that is worth, but pricing doesn't always tie directly to quality level.

I can add that it has spent the last years since that review time in quite warm and humid conditions, starting off being stored dry in Kunming, so I suppose that's a non-optimum storage input pattern, moving from dry early on to hot and wet.  I doubt there will be much of a clear story to tell here anyway, but at least it can work around saying that this Thai tea is interesting but that another half dozen years would tell more of its story.  Spoiler:  that's more or less the main conclusion.

I would guess that the Thai version will still be intense, losing bitterness, but that aspect won't be gone, with floral range flavor aspects switching over, with the warm tones not as established as they would be later.  So in-between.  

The last Chawang Shop cake I finished, from the same time period, but from Mengsong, had a bit of wood flavor character developing, which I took to not be ideal.  I don't know what that means though, what inputs lead to that, and if it really is always negative or not.  I've tried versions of moderate quality sheng that transition to taste quite woody after 15 years or so, and those tend to lose a lot of body feel and intensity too, along with flavor complexity, so they move on to warm tones but not a lot of other range that works well as a set.  We'll see.

Review:

It's interesting how much darker the Bada version is.  I'm not carefully storing these teas in terms of controlling conditions; they stay in one of three storage boxes that all get opened way too frequently.  It's hot and humid here, about 70% humidity a lot of the time, more like 80% lately during the rainy season, and never below 60 in the drier times.  This was stored in a thin ziplock style bag to offset the impact of opening and closing that box so much, too much air contact, but it surely still had too much exposure to air.

Wawee Tea 2017 sheng:   too light to judge; I skipped using a rinse, and that's how that tends to go.  Warm tones are pleasant; this has shifted over quite a bit to that range.  It had to be stored in Thailand, but there is plenty of local variation possible related to being in a hilly area further North; it had to be cooler and probably slightly drier than in Bangkok.

Bada 2016:  this is better than I expected; warm tones move towards a nice aromatic spice range.  Fermentation is much more progressed than for the other, probably related as much or more to conditions as that extra year.  Let's do the flavor list part next round.

Wawee, second infusion:  interesting!  There is a lot going on in this experience, and in a sense it's not all an integrated set, since it does taste like it's in the middle of transitioning from one thing to another.  Floral range has mostly shifted to other warmer tones; it's not even expressing much for warmer tone floral range.  Heavy and warm mineral is a strong base, and the rest is as close to woody as anything else.  It covers some spice range too, just not much dried fruit, at this point.  The feel makes it more balanced and appealing; it has good richness and structure.  Bitterness has largely transitioned but not completely.

Bada:  this still includes some green wood flavor, which I would expect to keep transitioning, but a lot of the range has shifted to warmer spice.  A very different warm mineral tone stands out, slightly warmer, and it's paired with a different range of mouthfeel.  The other tea feels softer, a bit "rounder," and this includes a dry feel that extends to the edges of your mouth, especially the rear-middle edges of your tongue.  That's odd, given that it's seeming a good bit more fermented, that it includes a little more of that young-range challenging structure.  It's related to astringency, but not so similar to young sheng astringency.

Wawee, third infusion:  I'm feeling these teas a bit already; odd for not being very far through yet.  It's strange how different the leaf color is, how this Thai version isn't so different than a young tea, and the other is pretty far along for turning brown.  They're both about half-way through full fermentation, with this one slightly behind.  This Wawee tea is maocha, never pressed, which I would expect to cause it to transition faster, but didn't seem to.

The range of aspects seems to integrate better this round; the experience is pleasant.  I'm really not getting far with unpacking warm tones, splitting apart what I mean by that.  Warm base mineral is one part, and the more aromatic range is perhaps closer to cedar wood than anything else.  There might be a tipping point past which warmer tones dominate, and this might be not quite there yet.  Then people also speak of a quiet "teen years" effect, when the change-over is at an awkward stage, and the tea seems quieter or less intense than it will earlier or later.  I would guess they typically mean a range even after lighter tones give way to heavier ones.

Bada:  flavors are definitely warmer for this tea, but then it gets complicated how feel compares.  There is still a trace more bitterness, even for being further transitioned, and a hint of dryness that goes along with the astringency structure.  I suppose I like this better for the fermentation level being that much further on; the character is more interesting.  Maybe in a sense both of these need another 6 or 7 years to show what they might become, and unless someone could really judge interim period patterns it wouldn't help trying them like this to indicate what that would be like.

But then of course it's still possible to compare them to preference at present; anyone could do that, with any degree of prior exposure, or none.  In re-trying the Thai version it's interesting how a warm mineral tone stands out, along the lines of how gun metal smells (which I guess would also relate to preservative oil, but that complicates things).  This other version includes warm mineral tone, more like slickrock, but that seeming to couple with a slightly edgier and drier astringency changes the experience.

Wawee 4:  I'll try a faster brewed round; why not?  This is evolving positively; a light note hints a little towards citrus.  Even brewed light a rich and silky feel stands out.  Earlier on that wood tone included a almost musty range, like balsa wood, which I described as more like cedar in overall effect, and that has evolved to seem a little cleaner and brighter.  This is pleasant, but I get it why it's normal to drink either well-aged sheng, at 15 years or more, or within the first 3 or 4 years, when that limited transition suits a certain starting point.

Bada:  there seems to be a flavor description I'm missing here, or maybe a pair or range.  It would seem to relate to unfamiliar spice range, one of the many inputs that make up an intriguing and powerful impression when you walk by a Chinatown spice shop.  I guess it could be as straightforward as including camphor?

As a set of inputs it might be a warm, mineral intensive tone paired with a unique dried fruit range, the latter maybe not far off the dried bael fruit Thais drink as a tisane.  This might taste like an age-transitioned spice input, so in the range of something I'm unfamiliar with that has been transitioned by hanging around for quite awhile.  Camphor does seem to be a part of that, but only one part.  

Wawee 5:  I'll go a little longer for infusion time but that should just draw out warmer tones and feel more.  And I suppose it does, trying it.  I've not mentioned sweetness level for these; it's not a gap, but it doesn't stand out either.  At this point for this version how well it all balances stands out, and a rich feel, with a slightly dry or musty flavor input offsetting that a little, just not as heavy as that had been.  It will surely be nicer when green wood tone changes over with a few more years of age, but it's not unpleasant to experience now.

Bada:  some of that feel structure and complex warm-tone flavor reminds me of how much more challenging sheng versions tend to come across in this aged range.  If this was a Dayi or Xiaguan version it would be hard to relate to at this age and fermentation level, very structured and intense, and I'd be flagging some of that feel and flavor range as indications that it might soften and develop, in another ten years.  This you can drink now.  Even though it wouldn't be in the most natural optimum yet in another couple of years slightly more warming and softening could make this even more pleasant, making it seem more integrated, as a 9 year old tea (or 9 1/2 maybe).

Later infusions:  I tried a few more rounds in the afternoon, after a long break.  Maybe the teas change a little with some rest but I think perspective can shift a little, mostly interpretation, just from the reset.

It's hard to pin down to a specific aspect but overall integration and balance of the Wawee tea is nice, tied to a mix of flavors and fullness of feel, but beyond all of it.  Depth is good, and there is a warm and sweet tone that grounds the rest and ties it together.  Bitterness has almost entirely evolved out of this tea, compared to any level that must have been present over the first 3 or 4 years, but a slight remnant remains.  A green flavor range tone also hangs in there; that must have linked to much more pronounced floral range earlier on, now hard to place.  It's pleasant, even though this isn't the most natural age and fermentation level range for drinking this particular tea.

Something along the lines of camphor does seem to be ramping up in this other version, and more than that deeper and warmer tones just start in to how wet aged teas come across.  It's like a wet slate / basement range flavor, evolving, but only there in a trace just yet.  It's interesting how one of these teas is hinting at what will come and the other still mostly vaguely referencing back to what it had changed from.  

It's also interesting how a full and rich but soft feel is present in the Thai version, which is far less fermented (relatively), with the Bada tea a bit more structured, and even a little dry.  Warm to actually dark-toned mineral stands out, tying to that feel, extending as the main aftertaste experience.  The corresponding range in the other is probably closer to green wood, and lighter mineral range, in the sense of a brighter tone (towards limestone versus slate) and in intensity.  Base mineral tones are only a minor contributing aspect in the Wawee Thai tea and a main part of the experience for the Bada version.

not a lot of color difference but the Wawee is lighter (left)

Conclusions:

Which is better, which has more aging potential?  Hard for me to say.  It's odd how both seemed to be in different places in a transition divide, with the Thai tea a bit prior to warming tones change-over and the Yunnan Bada version just after that main shift.

In many cases people criticize some sheng versions as not having great potential to age, and to some extent I think I can relate to what that aspect set seems like between new versions and those aged for only 2 or 3 years, but I tend to not drink that many teas at the midway point like this.  These teas must have had a good bit more intensity when younger, maybe stopping short of seeming challenging, even as 3 year old versions.  I first reviewed this Bada tea as a 3 year old version; it was ok to drink then.  It's possible that this Bada version has more potential to carry over intensity and complexity to a 15 year, relatively more complete aged form.  That isn't necessarily better, if the character of the other is lighter but still more pleasant, in that form.  

Some sheng just fades away, leaving behind the impression of full feel, with flavors largely evaporated, and I would guess neither of these would go there, but that's just a guess.  This Thai version may be light on intensity and complexity in another 8 years but it won't be completely faded, I don't think.  Some sheng versions can quiet down a lot within the first 7 or 8 years, especially if they start out sweet, floral or fruity, with some bitterness and feel structure, but in general quite approachable.  

The Thai sheng from Aphiwat may be a good example of this; it's still pleasant in a different way as a one year old version (the one from the year before, 2022, which of course isn't identical to this year's), but I'd expect within two more years, three in total, it would be as well to drink that tea.  The 2023 Wawee Tea sheng version is a little more challenging now, not as pleasant to experience new, with a good bit more feel structure (but not more bitterness; they might be more even there).  I would expect it to retain more intensity through this middle-age period range, even though I also think it will probably be great as a 2 to 4 year old version, and maybe even optimum then, although that depends on preference. 

I can kind of relate to some appeal of sheng versions in this middle of aging transition range but in general I wouldn't make it a point to drink sheng like this.  Maybe for people who are put off by the bitterness and intensity of young range it could make more sense.  Then if budget is no issue, and the richer and warmer toned flavors of aged sheng seems more appealing, moving on to drinking 15 year old versions would seem more natural.  Heavier basement sort of flavors might be off-putting, but there is plenty of range of storage input options beyond bone-dry Kunming storage, that preserves tea and can give it an odd slightly sour wood or cardboard flavor, and Bangkok or Malaysia environment storage that rapid ages them towards heavier flavors.

I've only mentioned it in passing but these are mild teas compared to a lot of factory range, that need a dozen years of aging to be approachable at all, to soften a bit.  I wouldn't expect either to be overly intense with twice as long to age, 7 more years, but complexity and character might still be quite nice.  Bangkok storage is probably better for teas that are less refined and subtle though, better for moving a challenging tea that really typically needs 30 years to fully transition to already ok to drink under 20.

Meetup at Zhennan Cafe in Bangkok

As part of exploring local meetup themes I asked others from this local interest group if they wanted to meet at the Zhennan Cafe in the Bangkok Chinatown, and a few of us did.  It was nice, very comfortable and casual, as much about hanging out and talking as the tea experience.

It followed two other local outings that were shop visits, more about trying a number of different teas, and checking out shops (Jip Eu and Sen Xing Fa).  A friend I've known for awhile and two others joined this outing version; it was nice meeting other local tea enthusiasts, as it was in earlier outings.

We tried a shu pu'er from there, and a Shui Xian (Wuyi Yancha oolong), and tasted a local Thai sheng version I brought.  That was it; we didn't get too far.  The shu was nice, typical for how those often tend to be, and the Shui Xian was better than I would have expected, well-balanced, with positive roast level, and a really nice mineral base.  A Moonlight White (Yunnan White tea version) sounded like it was probably more pleasant and interesting than those, but I don't care much what I try, for having been through lots of versions of many types of teas, so trying whatever sounded good to others was best.

The teas there seem pretty good for being moderate in cost, from 150 to 300 baht or so, $5 to $10.  I think they even have other off-menu options that are more rare and interesting, and teas to buy take-away.

This is the cafe where my friend in Singapore, John Lim, visited to hold a tasting a couple of weeks ago.  The theme was wild origin South East Asian teas, I think spanning a number of countries.  I didn't make it to that; I tend to save all my time off to spend with my kids, which won't come up again until they return in December, but I'll be off as much as possible to make the most of that time.  I did visit Zhennan once the night before when they were preparing, so I had met at least one of the owners.

John Lim!  you can follow him on IG here.

This shop had been a Chinese medicine business before, and there is still a range of that sort of thing available as a separate theme, not in that cafe space location, but retained in a separate area beyond there.  I mention that in part because John described how visiting and obtaining some herbs helped him with recovery from dengue fever a year ago, and one of the people joining us toured that part of a different business during this visit.

The main part that stands out about the cafe is how comfortable it is; the design and layout are pleasant, and the staff are relaxed and hospitable.  The tea service, in relation to gear, used a small clay pot for the pu'er and a gaiwan for the Shui Xian, seemingly whichever seemed most appropriate for the type.  It was already set up for us, so using a gaiwan could require a little more practice but otherwise it's all ready to go.

I think the tea is alternatively sold pre-brewed as multiple infusions served in a small sharing pitcher (or a cha hai, gong dao bei, however you prefer to refer to that), so avoiding the whole brewing process would also work.

This location in Chinatown is perfect for a starting point for exploring some of the rest of what is around, just a few blocks North of the main part of the main Yaowarat strip (and maybe an extra two blocks West).  There is a main shopping market stall alley just a couple blocks back towards the Wat Mangkon MRT station, which also isn't far away.  You can't miss it; it's on the left as you walk West from that MRT station.

that alley pre-covid; no masks

don't buy tea stored like this, in open bins

On the way back home I walked down to the Chinatown pier and took a river ferry back to my area; it's great how those still only cost 16 baht (50 cents), and make you feel like you are on vacation.  I could've taken the tourist boat version instead of the orange flag Thai commuter boat for 30 baht instead but that other line feels more familiar to me.  

They seemed to have changed the stops it makes (which is normal; they often do), and Google Maps understanding is mostly accurate but one stop off (it made an extra one at Phra Arthit near Khao San Raod, which works better than missing where you'd hoped to go).  River travel wouldn't be convenient for so many people, since it mostly crosses older parts of the city on the West side, but I'd highly recommend it for anyone who can use it.

it's like a bus, except that it's a boat

Thai bridge

the Sathorn and Silom areas skyline

Wawee Tea 2023 gushu Thai sheng

 

An earlier version related to this has been one of my favorites, and this might be as well.  It's from Wawee Tea (also here or here), so from Wawee, the main sheng production area outside of Chiang Rai.  I won't be sharing a lot of backstory here; it's presented as Thai sheng (pu'er-style tea) from old plant material.  Those links tell more of their story.

I loved the version last year for matching my own preference so closely.  The same is true of Aphiwat's version I've been discussing, and one from Moychay wasn't so different.  I think from repeatedly trying sheng versions from Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, and Vietnam the general style range has evolved to become my main tea preference, with the narrower set of aspects in those few the closest match.  

I expect this will be a little closer to conventional Yunnan versions than the one from Aphiwat was, but that material seemed to be quite good quality, so maybe not better in that regard.  His tea had an unusual plant or flower stem edge to it, a flavor that didn't pair with an astringency aspect as much as I would've expected, since the feel was rich but not rough or structured.  It also had amazing intensity, complexity, durability, and sweetness, along with substantial bitterness.  It's too hard to explain here but I don't think it's a type that's well-suited for aging, that it's perhaps as positive as it would ever be this year or next.  Since it's such a personal favorite while still young that's not as much of a limitation.

This will be related in flavor range, I expect, but without as much of that one unusual edge.  I would expect it to include less fruit range and more floral tones, based on last year's version, with bitterness level not so different, and feel different but in a way that's not simple to describe, more structured, fuller in feel.  Never mind all that; this will be about this tea, not comparison to others, but if it helps define an aspect or transition expectation I'll get into that.  

As to what comes before the brewed tea experience the appearance is just beautiful, as in the photos, and the smell is sweet, complex, fragrant, and floral.  This is pressed a bit tight; that adds a little challenge in separating out a bit to brew, more care in not breaking up leaves.  With a now more conventional loose pressing you can just push in the pick or knife from any direction and flake off a chunk of about the size you want.  It'll slow aging transition slightly too, but otherwise it makes no difference.  It's still much easier to separate off the tea than for older style factory cakes, more broken material pressed just as hard, which are looser and easier to access than iron cake versions, or typical tuochas. 

I'm trying this on day 4 out of 5 of a fast; I've not eaten in 3 1/2 days.  That won't change much.  It's generally better not to drink most of a liter of sheng on a completely empty stomach but it'll be alright.  I drank some salt water earlier, a sodium and potassium mix, which isn't nearly as good a stomach buffer as toast or cereal, but it will have to do.

Review:  

First infusion:  I let this brew about 15 seconds because I skipped a rinse step; that's a judgement call.  It would've infused better with a rinse, and I'd skip saying "this is still a bit light," but it is still throwing out the tea.  This will brew about 15 infusions, most likely, a half dozen more than I'll drink in a sitting, so that would've made sense.  It's still a bit light; I gave half to a nearby plant to continue on making better notes.  Of course it's as I already described it, sweet, floral, complex, seemingly well balanced.

Second infusion:  that's it!  Sweetness and flavor intensity pick way up; I can start brewing this faster and lighter.  A honey-like flavor note stands out; it's always nice when it works out like that.  There is good warmth to these flavor tones for being so young.  I would generally expect it to be a little more oxidized than is typical in that case, implied by the mix of colors in the dried leaves.  The darker yellow brewed liquid and mix of brown on the wet leaves would also more or less confirm that.  For a version intended for long aging that's probably more negative than positive, but if someone plans to drink this within the first 2 or 3 years it can be more positive than negative.  

The character right now is fantastic; no complaints.  Then it's complicated and hard to sort out how a mix of varying extra oxidation level works out, if this really will age well, even long term, because many of the leaves are as green as could be. 

Bitterness level is still considerable, but still in the middle of the scale in relation to typical Menghai versions.  Floral range seems to stand out, but there is plenty more going on with this.  The warm honey tone ties to mineral tones across a lighter and heavier scale, and to other warm flavor range that could be towards spice.  To me the main flavor range, which is complex, and hard to break apart, combines both floral and fruit range.  

It's almost a bit citrusy, or actually is, not in one distinct form (lemon, orange, tangerine), but I would expect that to evolve and seem to link to different range across infusions.  This is a lot like the version I really loved earlier this year (last year's tea, and I think most of a year of aging transition amounted to a lot more than it would've in a cooler and drier place, when I tried it in February or so).

I suspect that a lot of South East Asian teas are slightly more oxidized than Yunnan versions not just because they don't process them quickly enough, but because it's pretty warm and humid across a lot of the entire region (not so much at elevation in northern Laos and Vietnam, but maybe even there in comparison with a lot of Yunnan).  Everything changes quickly as a result; cereal can get stale still in the factory sealed packaging, and leaving partly brewed tea out overnight doesn't go as well as elsewhere.  A picked fresh leaf would oxidize a little pretty fast.

third infusion:  it's so good!  That one flavor input, like honey, is probably closer to how beeswax smells, warm, rich, and sweet.  A citrus edge warms up a little too, with other range I interpret as floral just as strong or stronger.  Feel and aftertaste work together to support a more complex experience, in this case in a very positive form.  It's rich and full, with a good bit of structure, and the bitter edge carries over to sweetness plus the other flavors trailing in aftertaste.  Sometimes that effect can be even stronger; there is plenty of flavor experience a minute after drinking this tea, but for some versions it really goes on and on, sometimes seemingly even stronger than the actual flavor.

I'm saying that the citrus is warm in tone, but this might cover both a warmer tangerine range and lighter lemon input.  It makes it come across as complex and satisfying, since that's only part of the range.  

The version from Aphiwat extended to ripe and sweet pineapple, related to a fresh fruit version that wouldn't be familiar to most people in the US.  Even if you try an exported fresh pineapple most plant types are sweet, citrusy, and intense but a little harsh, and other types here express a much warmer tone.  That's like a branded version "Maui Gold," I guess (which sounds like a weed strain).  Anyway this is different, more broad range citrus, honey and beeswax, and floral tones.  A vegetal input is harder to place, maybe like a bit of green wood, not dominant, but there in the mix.

fourth infusion:  I should've backed off my normal 8 gram or so proportion; without food in my stomach I might be able to drink a couple more rounds but will only get halfway through this infusion cycle, at best.  This tea will be great in the afternoon but for doing a relaxed day while fasting I don't need to get blasted on caffeine.  I have some errands to run; it'll help with that.

Intensity stands out in this experience (with the flavor set not transitioning quickly, so I won't add much about that).  I think that's part of what I like about sheng, what I'm acclimated to.  Probably if I would "get" the cha qi / body feel part more that would be intense too.  When fasting energy levels tend to go all over the place, and sitting in a dark room is enough to bring on a crash, while doing something outside can trigger the opposite, great physical and mental energy and clarity.

Finishing this cup is probably all I'll have for now.  My stomach still feels ok but the continual deep emptiness I've felt for days has shifted in form, warning me not to keep going.  I'm sweating in a different way.  I bet a couple of interesting late transitions would tell more of the story of this tea; maybe I can make notes over the next few hours as I get to those.

re-tasting two days later (I didn't make more notes):  this won't be round by round, but I will add some thoughts, about re-trying the tea when I'm back out of fasting (I finished 5 full days last evening; that went ok).  No change related to that factor, that I could tell.

I like the tea, in a style closer to conventional Yunnan versions than Aphiwat's.  Bitterness isn't so different, but feel might have just a little more feel structure, and give up a little for sweetness level.  Lighter mineral tones are stronger, which together with the feel makes it come across as a little drier.  It seems like unusual flavor range in Aphiwat's version is replaced by a more standard floral range in this.  

This tea might be better to drink a year or two later, to rest and settle a bit, and let the rough edges wear off, and flavor deepen.  I didn't buy that earler Wawee Tea sheng version this year until late January / early Feb. or so, coming up on a year after production, which is only three months from now, but drank more in March and April.  This character seems ok for longer aging too, drinking this as a 15 year old version, but I don't think Aphiwat's tea would have great potential for that kind of longevity.

They sent me some maocha from 2017, so 6 1/2 year old tea, and of course I can't assume that the starting point was quite similar, but it will inform part of how this might age.

Flavor list interpretation would always vary a good bit, so the comprehensive, round by round flavors list--mostly missing here--might not be so meaningful anyway.  To help make that point here are tasting notes from that friend that visited here, John Lim, for Aphiwat's sheng, which I've described as floral with some fruit, and a plant stem related bitterness:

Gushu material, viscous and mellow.

I get ginger , lemongrass and wildflowers. Relatively sweet as well.

Subsequent brews bring out its bitter nature as well.

This tea feels like life in the mountains. Filled with herbs, grass and wildflowers. Bitter sweet life experiences.

More poetic than my writing; nice!  Lemongrass makes sense, which I've interpreted differently, as citrus range or pineapple.  Floral we both agreed on (I just didn't narrow it further), and the plant-stem, slightly edgy input could be an interpretation of bitterness overlapping with herbal nature.  Herbs tend to not taste like plant stem, usually covering a warmer range, but I've described that warm rich tone as relating to honey, if I remember right, or maybe that was beeswax.  It seems to be about breaking down a very complex and broad range of flavors into sets that match foods, floral, or vegetal experiences, which themselves are often not one dimensional, so sort of equivalent sets can vary a lot.

Later I tried Aphiwat's tea brewed Western style and it did taste a lot more like ginger and lemongrass; it's odd how combining what would be a lot of Gongfu infusion range together can change things.  Or maybe it was all related to suggestion, expecting that, then noticing it?

Also if you brew any tea much lighter or stronger it will emphasize a different range, related to flavor and other aspects.  Judging from the look of John's brewing--a photo--he used about half the proportion of tea leaf, a more conservative and sensible 4 or 5 grams per 100 ml instead of 8 or so, which would make it much easier to dial in lighter infusions, probably using longer infusion times.

I've just screwed up brewing this tea in a way that highlights that, writing these second trial notes.  While typing I let a round brew too long (nearly 30 seconds?), and then will often brew a flash-infused round to mix with that, instead of diluting tea with water.  Tasting the stronger in comparison with the fast-brewed round they're completely different, and not just in terms of intensity, also differing flavor aspects come through.  The light one is too wispy to make it out clearly, but just a touch stronger would make the point better.  Mixing the two rounds lands closer to an optimum, in a form that's far different than both tried separately. 

Sweetness has been picking up in this tea, and bitterness easing off; this is what I really valued in the other version last year (this overall experience, not that particular transition pattern).  Still, if this rests for 6 more months--or a year or two--it will be that bit more approachable, requiring less dialing in for infusion process.  

I have a few cakes now around 4 years old that are coming out the other side of that somewhat young but more settled range, not getting better every year now, fading some but well short of the broader character transition onto being aged.  Essentially all of those I don't own enough of to make waiting out another decade of transition such an attractive prospect.  I'll probably work on finishing most of them, leaving only tea I bought enough extra to age-transition around to wait out that longer cycle.  I can't finish all the half-consumed cakes I own now in a few months, or even half a year; I mean I'll work towards that.

One last point comes to mind, that I've tried 10 year old dry stored teas that are less fermentation transitioned than teas tend to be here after 3 years.  All of these times and stages I'm citing depend on the particular storage input, in addition to the tea character starting point, which I did say a little about.

Is this tea as good as Aphiwat's, or better or worse?  Just different.  Maybe I prefer his a little more, but I think the opposite would be true trying both as two year old versions, and they might be pretty even next year.  Related to long term aging potential I expect this has much more.  All that is just guesses though.  I've tried a somewhat aged version from them before (I should link to that, right?), and I'll post another within another week or so.

my company for tasting again. two marks on her are actually heart shaped.

so green in the rainy season

the other garden

impressive, but spanning across a walkway.  since it's a Buddhist household he gets to use the space.