2013 Xiaguan Fei Tai blend, Love Forever

"Love" version right; the FT iron cake is much more compressed

This post is a bit different, reviewing a tea version with an interesting back-story.  That relates to there being a slight complication over two different versions of the same tea turning up.  Since I'm breaking with standard form and not describing the vendor source here (I just came by a sample) it could be clearer what this even is. 

This description from the Teas We Like vendor page (not the source this is from) offers more background that explains a variation difference:

Pressed in 2013 with older material, this Xiaguan Feitai blend is believed to contain some 2003 material from the Banzhang area.  Of the two versions produced, this is the significantly better one, packaged in a paper tong.  The tea has a thick texture, full satisfying and sweet flavour, lots of resinous aroma, and gives a very intense but comfortable experience.  Taiwan natural dry storage.


So far so good.  It's my understanding that this is the paper tong version.  But then a running sub-theme here relates to citing different reviews, and those don't really match this account, which could seem to call that into question.  This "Love" version doesn't come across quite that positively, and the aspects don't match that or other descriptions.  I'm not sure if the character difference couldn't relate to storage conditions input, versus this being that other "not significantly better" version, but it's not the type of variation I would expect to relate to a storage issue.  We'll get to that part.

The background between this tea version and US tea enthusiast interest relates to James Schergen of TeaDB being given a tong of this type for a wedding gift.  Somewhat related, TeaDB reviewed that tea here in 2017, and again in 2019.  Typically I wouldn't know or really care how many times teas have been reviewed elsewhere, but after checking back in on a review that split in the two versions drew my attention, and differences in review accounts seemed puzzling. 

As a start on that the tea sounds a lot different in the 2019 TeaDB review video version (just cited), compared to the 2017 one, but then sheng can evolve quite a bit over even two years time. 


Per normal practice (here, at least) I'm comparing it to a 2011 Xiaguan FT "Yun Mei Chun" mini iron cake, one I've reviewed here, with the Chawang Shop vendor listing here.  It seems much younger, and it is, so it sort of works for comparing general character but not really so well for considering aging / storage conditions input.

Review:

"Yun Mei Chun" FT left; more bits from using a tightly compressed version

Xiaguan FT Iron Cake (2011):  warm, rich, sweet, and complex, relatively clean for the range of flavors present.  This could be aged further; it's not even close to finished yet.  Astringency and bitterness aren't issues but a touch of green wood in the background remains.  I do like this tea; it's been my favorite among trying a round of Xiaguan tuos and small cakes, along with Tulin and other comparable versions.  To be clear all that was limited sampling, not a broad scale exploration.  This recent post covers review of three relatively young versions (2012-2015, to identify starting points), with other posts covering older related versions scope.


Xiaguan Love Forever (2003 material, at least some of it, pressed in 2013):  mushroom stands out at first; that changes a lot.  I think that's just from the tea input, probably not related to a storage effect.  The other 2010 Xiaguan tuocha I bought from Chawang Shop is heavy on mushroom too.  We'll see if that fades or shifts in proportion a bit; these aren't even completely opened up yet.  The mushroom is interesting for being in the range of those tree fungus, the white half-moon versions, not so much shitake or the rest.  Beyond that the flavors are clean and positive, with reasonable sweetness, and no notable mustiness.

Second infusion:

This was brewed longer, probably a bit too long, but that will help identify character and flaws (that's one theory and approach used, anyway), and will push through the rest of the opening up phase.

Iron Cake:  too strong like this; not unexpected.  The astringency works well for being a bit much; it's a little dry, and warm mineral comes across as strong, seemingly tied to feel, but the feel isn't bad.  The sweetness seems to evolve towards a dried fruit, maybe along the lines of dried dark cherry.  Mineral is at the other end of that, for flavor, a bit towards a warm version of corroded metal.  Green wood isn't pronounced but is present in mild form, to me signifying that the level of fermentation isn't relatively complete.  The overall balance really works, but trying it light next time will determine more about a match to my own preference.

In comparing it with the other version a turpentine sort of effect comes across.  It's hard to place where that fits within other flavor or character range, if it relates to storage (probably not), how it will age, or how negative it is (closer to neutral but not positive).


Xiaguan Love:  mushroom is easing up but that's still the main flavor aspect present.  Other warmer, sweeter, complex range fills in beyond that.  If that pattern holds and mushroom drops away further over the next two rounds this will be easier to appreciate.  Mustiness or geosmin (like beets, or dirt) can relate to storage conditions input and degree of fermentation (supposedly the main theme of this tasting set, kind of lost for trying these three weeks apart, or whatever it is), but dried mushroom flavor is something else.  Beyond that warm complex flavor range fills in, maybe dark wood, or maybe cured hay, with plenty of mineral range grounding that.

It's not really vegetal, beyond the mushroom and cured hay sort of being vegetal; I mean it's not in the sense of greener wood and the rest.  Both of these are pretty clean, both relatively positive.  Feel has decent fullness in this, and aftertaste adds complexity.

Third infusion:

Iron Cake:  a little smoke showed up; strange.  I guess that extends from the warm, corroded metal mineral and turpentine, as a variant of that range.  It works better for being located within a clean, sweet, well-balanced aspects context.  The feel is much improved, thicker and rich, even though this is brewed lighter.  That seems to relate to the prior astringency working well and coming across differently at a different level, in addition to infusion round transition, normal changes.  Fruit isn't heavy in this but that range works well to balance the earthier aspects.


Xiaguan Love:  continually improving; mushroom keeps falling into a lighter balance.  For someone who loves a mushroom consume (broth) maybe this would be a positive aspect, instead of a limitation or flaw, as I'm sort of assuming here.  The overall balance of the rest is good; the tea is nice.  It's clean in effect, with no problems or mustiness related to too-wet storage, and without a pronounced vegetal edge that mid-level aging can bring across.  It's probably not that far off the other Xiaguan tuocha I bought from Chawang Shop in character; heavy on mushroom, clean and reasonably well balanced beyond that, including a good bit of other range.  I just don't love mushroom.  Sauteed wild mushroom added to a grilled cheese sandwich I do; I mean how it tends to work out in tea.

The green wood / touch of turpentine effect in the other version is much more pronounced comparing these two directly.  To some extent knowing initial aspects would help out, but that green-wood tone seems to definitely be a vegetal range that fermentation would cause to drop out.  Feel should shift comparably, and the Love version is a touch softer.  But then it also gives up a little in richness, as I interpret these.

There's another significant input I've not mentioned yet:  the "Iron Cake" version is more broken.  This will change results in a way that's a bit complicated.  Astringency will pick up related to that; different compounds will extract, with flavors shifting some along with it.  In general more whole-leaf tea presentation is just better, it works out more positively, but to some extent it's also just different.  Aged versions of more broken teas can transition in ways that offsets that clear value judgment final assessment (being not as good); those same compounds can be more positive at higher proportions after significant age transition.  I'm not sure that it would ever be preferable to convert a whole-leaf tea source into a more broken or ground version, that results would ever improve in a way to support that being a positive factor.  There's also a related commercial concern, beyond that outcome difference:  more whole leaf tea is more desirable, and would sell for more.

Fourth infusion:

Iron Cake:  the balance of these aspects is the most positive thing, it's just the kind of effect that won't come across well in flavor-list description.  Sweetness, warm tones, rich feel, complex flavors; it all works.  On the downside the turpentine edge, tied to green wood effect, isn't necessarily positive.  It's my impression that this represents further aging potential, that it will actually be a positive factor in another 4 or 5 years once that transitions further.  If that was just missing instead the tea would probably have less aging potential; it would simply fade more, versus change in positive ways.  It's nice as it is now though; I do like it.

The way the warm mineral comes across reminds me a little of how Liu Bao tends to work out; that slate-mineral effect, that can trail a little into charcoal, corroded metal, or other range.


Love:  this is softer, and less complex and intense.  It definitely seems further age-transitioned, but then it should, being 8 years older (at least some of the material; that part could be clearer).  The leaf color also indicates the "iron cake" version isn't even close to as aged; it has retained a lot of greenness, with the "love" version moving on to a uniform brown color. 

There's a sweetness and richness in the other version this doesn't quite match.  I suppose if the mushroom aspect was present in a lower level (now much more balanced) then pushing it for infusion strength might allow the rest to come across stronger, without it turning into more of a blast of mushroom flavor.  I'll try letting this brew just a little longer than the other next round and compare results.

I had really expected this "Love" version to be a slightly higher quality version than the other, to be more positive.  That's not based on much; maybe just hearing something about the unusually branded version in passing and the "love" theme itself being catchy.  It's pleasant tea, just a little flatter than the other, seemingly more age-transitioned but not picking up deeper complexity to compensate for leveling out general intensity along with initial vegetal range.

Fifth infusion:

Iron Cake:  the way those warm flavors combine somehow shifted a little to come across more as spice in this round, a little towards clove, or in between that and an aromatic wood tone.  Fruit range always seemed a potential interpretation of a supporting aspect that never really developed enough to be clear.  It's still present, still open to being interpreted in different ways, and potentially tied to what I'm describing as spice now.  Or more likely the green wood / medicinal / turpentine range shifted a little to come across more as that.


Love:  Drawing out the infusion time just a little (to 15 seconds or just over) has improved results.  Astringency wasn't an issue, and that bumps up thickness of feel and intensity.  Mushroom (the story of this tea version) is still relatively moderately balanced, but still the main aspect present.  Sweetness ramps up along with the rest of the flavor intensity, giving it a nice balance.  Mineral undertone and an aged hay sort of effect fill in intensity.

Tied to a lack of astringency and overall intensity, this is seemingly far enough along in age transitioning that it would smooth out and deepen from here, lightening up a little in terms of flavor, but perhaps the main shifts in character have already occurred.  Of course that's just a guess; I'm in the process of sorting all that out.

Sixth infusion:

I'll probably let this go after this; writing or reading a page of text is enough.  This "iron cake" version seems to have the potential for late-stage twists in changing character but the "love" version seems inclined to just fade, since it hasn't really been changing as much between rounds.

Iron cake:  this seems to be fading just a little, losing some intensity already.  General character hasn't changed much, and being as intense as it had been it's not overly subtle brewed lightly for that, just not quite as intense, and a bit thinner.  It's a couple of infusions ahead of schedule for thinning like that but at least one was brewed stronger than optimum by a good bit.  It hasn't transitioned much from the prior description otherwise.  I like this tea like this but to me its real potential lies in aging more.


Love:  again not so different than last round.  It's really clean in effect, and flavor intensity dropping back can occur in a relatively long aging process, ideally with the tea picking up substantial depth to compensate, or subtle flavor range that is present being especially interesting.

I like this tea too but it really doesn't stand out related to others in a similar range, beyond offering a more fermented character example.  Thickness of feel could be stronger, aftertaste range could stand out more (both intensity and type), flavor complexity and balance could be improved.  One might naturally criticize that I'm mixing how lesser aged teas should be, in relation to fully transitioned versions; flavor intensity and complexity isn't necessarily a main part of that relatively fully fermented theme.

I'm not mentioning body-feel aspects, the effect of the tea, and that is something that is said to change over aging, in more optimum circumstances.  I tend to not "get" that, and combined tasting gives it up as something one could notice.  Doing a lot of combined tasting would explain why I'm never evolving that capacity, in part.  I'm not aiming to develop it; not enabling noticing it more.  I drink teas alone every work-day morning, so five days a week, but tend to rush that.  And I'm a little hazy around 7 AM too, not as open to minor shifts in internal state.

Further conclusions:

I really thought this tea would stand out as a higher quality version than the 2011 Xiaguan FT sheng cake.  Comparing 2003 and 2011 versions would tend to make aging concerns stand out a lot more than quality or other character differences, which is probably what happened.  Both are so clean in effect that the mustiness, geosmin, or heavy mineral range marking potentially problematic or undesirable input in the other two examples just didn't come up.

To some extent I like the FT version better, but that doesn't completely take into account that it's sort of not ready to drink yet, probably needing another 4 or 5 years of somewhat humid storage to show it's true potential (per my preference; some people might like it just like this).  This "Love" cake seems to more or less be where it's going to be now, close to an end point.  There is a huge convenience advantage to not waiting 5 years after you buy a tea to drink it, especially if someone lives in a place where dry climate would involve a lot of messing around just to get a tea to age transition at all, or waiting another decade instead if it's stored in a cool, dry environment.

Some of this "FT version" interpretation probably involved hopefulness; I'm expecting only the most negative aspects (the green wood bordering on turpentine) to switch to something I like even better, eg. fruit and spice to develop, and not expecting any positive aspect to fade at all.  Of course both are probably going to happen, and some degree of change I don't see coming.


To me if this "Forever Love" version swapped out some of the dried mushroom range for just about anything else that would shift this overall impression a lot, but then that's how personal preference goes.  I have a relatively high tolerance for some degree of storage mustiness, geosmin, or heavy mineral range that some might see as off-putting, but don't really love mushroom or smoke aspects as primary flavors.


It's not just that, related to not matching those other review takes.  Flavor intensity and aspect range, thick feel, and no mention of mushroom doesn't match.  I'll cite another review example from a source that seems pretty solid, M Gault's Late Steeps blog (the 2017 review summary):


What’s not to love? Thick texture, strong aroma with high perfume resin and low notes of tobacco and woody incense, flavour in spades, productive bitterness and extra juiciness on the cheeks, and intense but extremely comfortable energetic effects.  No off notes, no geosmin, no funkiness, and no smokiness.  It does have some astringency, which does not bother me.  It isn’t an extra-late steeper, perhaps this is due to the slightly chopped nature of the material (which is actually quite nice looking overall).


2 1/2 years later the tea would be different but that doesn't sound like what I just reviewed.

It seems odd that mushroom could be an effect from storage, as mustiness and some types of mineral scope definitely can.  I guess it's conceivable that it ties to a varying form of the tobacco M Gault mentioned in Late Steeps.  I'm just accustomed to teas stored here in Bangkok coming across as musty for the first couple of months, not to other types of flavor aspect changes, adding or taking away a main flavor component.  Bitterness dropping out is normal, and warm fruit tones (or menthol, or whatever else) picking up over a longer period of time would also seem normal, but not dominant mushroom being added.

There's no conclusion here; the idea was to pass on those findings.  If I were reading this I would either assume that one or more of the tea interpretations was way off, or that the tea isn't the same version, but I'm not sure of that myself.

Wild grown Thai sheng

just a wrapper he bought; no real meaning to this

In visiting that Chinatown shop I keep bringing up, Jip Eu, along with the fellow tea enthusiast I also keep mentioning, Ralph, it came up that I never try the same teas twice there.  Sometimes we try versions of what are standard for them, Wuyi Yancha oolong versions, inexpensive ones that are sometimes better than you'd expect, or moderately higher cost versions that vary a lot in character.  Or other more unusual teas they happen to have around; that included a Japanese version of sheng not so long ago.  I've tried and bought decent Dan Cong and Longjing there, and sometimes it's tisanes instead, or teas they don't even sell, an unusual hei cha or whatever else.  Once they had just finished trying a 40 year old version of Longjing when I stopped by.

Ralph--who also writes a tea blog--kept asking about different local Thai teas, leading to us exploring more of those.  Sometimes Kittichai even makes local Thai tea versions, not usually to sell, as a side project on an outing, but sometimes for selling them too.  They're usually pretty good; he comes from a tea producing family and made teas in Anxi and Wuyishan in his younger days.  He mentioned making cakes of sheng some years back, and we tried one, this tea I'm reviewing.

inexpensive Thai oolong, a shu pu'er (the mini bricks), and Chinese pastry

This is most of it for back-story; I don't even remember the age.  I asked Ralph again and he said that he thought it was picked in 2012 and pressed in 2014, or at least close to that.  7 year old tea can be relatively lightly fermented, depending on storage conditions, but here in Bangkok that's a long time.  Kittichai said more about harvesting the tea, about the source, but even that day I don't think I had a good feel for plant types or ages or the rest.

The character was really unusual; it didn't taste like sheng I've had before, any type of it.  It was a bit closer to sheng pu'er character than that Japanese version was (which I'll get around to reviewing; Kittichai gave me some).  I'll let the review describe in what sense that applies, and why I liked and was curious about how it would develop further.

Review:

First infusion:  part of the appeal and downside (both) of this tea is that it's unconventional, which already comes across clearly in the first infusion.  It's good, just unusual, and good is always relative.

Where to start; it has some thickness, but the rich feel is both less structured (toward dry) and full.  That aspect is sort of like how oolongs are, but present in a slightly different sense in some sheng.  Then it does include a slight resin-like feel, maybe closer to how some Yunnan black teas come across.  There is very little astringency and bitterness in this tea version, which could tie to age.

Flavor includes pleasant sweetness and decent balance.  It's further towards autumn leaf than sheng tends to get, not quite warm enough to match black teas with similar range.  There's a slight spice or medicinal edge to it.  I'll try to break that down further in later rounds.  It's there to be tasted now, it's making the association that's an issue, along with some background noise factoring in.  My wife thinks we should go see a Frozen 2 showing in one hour, but I think seeing one in 2 hours and 20 minutes makes more sense.

I think this unusual character must relate to using a mix of wild tea plant types (he harvested it himself, along with help, in the North of Thailand, from wild growing plants).  Those growing conditions probably affect flavor profile too.  And processing would factor in, but I'm definitely not going to guess further, and say which input led to what.  I try a lot of old-plant natural-growth sheng from a lot countries, kind of regularly even, and it can be essentially identical to Yunnan versions, this just isn't.

Second infusion:  that shifted a lot.  For someone not expecting that it could be off-putting, since the character is even more unusual.  When I tried this in the shop I was wondering if it would age well, and I really don't know, but curiosity got the better of me related to buying it.

What had been a dried leaf effect with a bit of medicinal edge turned into even more of an edge, not exactly conventional bitterness but towards that.  It reminds me of the smell of fallen and fermenting wet leaves, but leaves that are still in that process, like the smell of a very wet fall day.  What I'm calling a medicinal edge could be interpreted differently, as a slightly sour food item, as something lightly cured.  I tend to not use "sour" as a tea description much, and it would seemingly be negative if I did, but it fits here, since this is moderately sour.  It all still kind of works, although I expect later infusions to be cleaner in effect, and somehow suspect this will transition into something else over a few years.

At this particular infusion this doesn't work well.  The effect in between sourness and bitterness isn't way out of balance but it's unconventional and not necessarily positive.  I think it will improve, although I don't clearly remember a particular transition cycle.

Third infusion:  brewed slightly faster (a bit under 10 seconds) the balance is much nicer, although some of that still could have been early-round transition, since that comes up a lot with sheng.  The sour / bitter effect is diminishing, pulling closer to a light bitterness.  A vegetal range (the wet but not fully fermented tree leaf) is in a nicer balance, with sweetness and warmth picking up.  It's clean in effect; it would seem natural for this mix of flavors to not be that way.  A warm spice note picks up, not so far off clove, or really most people would probably just say that it's clove.


Fourth infusion:  even better, although not so different.  Rich feel picks up; the structure (feel) is novel but not far off that of quite nice Yunnan sheng versions.  A dried leaf version warms, shifting to be closer to a drier version of autumn leaf.  Spice is interesting in this, the "towards clove" part.  Mineral is pronounced, more so now, like a light stone (limestone?) leaning just a little towards corroded metal, but in a generally pleasant sense.  As is typical flavors being clean, sweetness helping, and feel-balance complimenting the rest makes it work.  It's a completely different tea than it was two infusions ago, although that unconventional range (slight sourness, unusual bitterness, partly fermented leaf vegetal range) only faded and expanded to balance better; it's still a part of it.  It'll be interesting to see how late rounds go; we didn't get to that in the shop.


Fifth infusion:  this shifted a little to include a different spice range.  It's towards a very aromatic wood, past cedar and redwood, onto closer to incense bark spices, frankincense and myrrh (which I can't distinguish separately; my own hippie days are pretty far back now).  Sourness has faded just a little more, still a contributing aspect that some people could find either pleasant or objectionable.  Related to expectations across other sheng it's not normal, and therefore mostly negative, but aside from that, tied to just how it comes across, it's closer to neutral, just different.  Related to considering how this will age, it would seem to be anyone's guess.

Sixth infusion:  it keeps improving slightly, becoming catchier.  The warm, novel spice range keeps ramping up, thick rich feel improves, and the touch of sourness and odd vegetal range fades as a lighter and lighter contribution.  To me this is quite pleasant just as it is now.  I could relate to a sheng purist not really relating to it; it's unusual.  Aftertaste is even pronounced in this, not at the far end of the spectrum as sheng goes, but above average.


Seventh infusion:  I'll have to leave off drinking this to go see Frozen 2; not such a bad thing.  It's quite pleasant at this round.  I did get back to trying it later but it seemed to mostly just fade past that.

Conclusions:

I'm not sure what to make of this tea, or where it will go from here, related to ongoing transitions.  For any sheng pu'er in a more typical range I can compare trying versions of different characters to older versions that I expected had been similar.  Not for this.

It's odd that the flavor isn't diminishing, if this had been closer to green tea at the start, or even black tea, for that matter.  It does seem like sheng pu'er, related to feel and aftertaste, and the way versions can be so complex across all levels.  The flavor range just isn't familiar, and the feel / astringency isn't identical, with no significant bitterness present (normal for sheng this old and fermented to this degree, depending on the starting point).  I wouldn't be surprised if that somewhat odd initial character diminishes, and flavor gains warmer tones and depth, with feel thickening.  I guess we'll see.

Video interview with the Russian Tea Lovers founder

I just did a video interview with Alexander Vorontsov, the founder of the Russian Tea Lovers group (one founder, at least), with that video here.   I just realized that I'm sideways in that, checking it out to post about it.  It's always the little details.

I've met him before, and discussed Russian tea culture, most of which is summarized in this post.  It's a bit redundant to say a lot about the video since that content stands alone, but I'll introduce who that group is and what we talked about in order to help people determine if watching it would be of interest.

meeting Alexander at the one local shop I always go to, Jip Eu

That group holds local tea tastings, with members sharing both tea and information about exploring tea elsewhere.  Chinese teas have the most influence in Russia, I think, but there is local Sochi area production, and a deeper history of tea production in Georgia (with more on that history here). 

On my end we visited Russia a couple of years ago, with a travel oriented post about that here.  Russia is amazing, and the local tea culture runs deeper there than here in Bangkok, even though Chinese culture is the main influence on Thai culture, with Thais mostly descended from multiple waves of Chinese immigrants.  I've reviewed a lot of tea from Moychay, one of their main suppliers, who also runs tea clubs there (something different).  Their one Nannuo sheng pu'er I bought on that first trip was one of my overall favorite tea versions.

tea tasting in Moscow with Dasha and Alexander, the Laos Tea founder

In that video we talked about international tea culture themes, and how local perspectives go back in the US.  I mentioned what I'm up to related to tea, and my own favorite other tea blogs (Steep Stories, Tea DB, Tea Addict's Journal), and we discussed why Tea for Me Please is probably the most influential US blog, and how that subculture works out.  Then onto organic themes related to tea, online group culture, sourcing, and so on, pretty much all what one would expect.

so many cool places to visit there